EV Discussion thread

silverwhistle

I think getting an EV may be a combination of influences. I'd never spent more than 4k on a car before getting an EV (take that, noitsnotme! ;-) ), so it was a combination of having savings which were up over Covid, lower running costs, environmental concerns, better late than never and the result of a random test drive which left me grinning and in the car a few days later.

I'm under no illusions about having spent so much capital on a car, and I've no more done a proper cost benefit than I have for the new bathroom that's going in in January.

The mileage thing is difficult to ascertain. I still cycle 3 miles into town occasionally when my shopping needs are light or the weather or time permits. Vists to aged parent in nursing home can be by both modes, as can trips to the allotment but there's no gainsaying that the car is a greater pleasure to drive than an ICE.

Mileage may be a little higher but there's a number of 50+ mile round trips because rail wasn't available. Having cycled in slow traffic I don't want to go back to ICE to add to the fumes.

silvercar

OH has a LR M3 on a lease, had we bought it outright as new 18 months ago it would have already depreciated by nearly 50%!

michaels

Before covid I think cars were generally expected to lose about 50-60% in the first 3 years.  Obviously with EVs there was also a bubble in play when new and used prices went really high.  With new prices having fallen back then that 50-60% loss should probably be compared against the current new price rather than the new price at the time of purchase.

allegedly the lease companies are trying to release their end of contract EVs rather than sell them through auction sites as the capital losses are way above what they anticipated when they set the lease payment levels.  We also see this in lease payments not falling even though the list price of the cars have fallen as the three year depreciation is still expected to be the same.

JKenH

michaels said:

Before covid I think cars were generally expected to lose about 50-60% in the first 3 years.  Obviously with EVs there was also a bubble in play when new and used prices went really high.  With new prices having fallen back then that 50-60% loss should probably be compared against the current new price rather than the new price at the time of purchase.

allegedly the lease companies are trying to release their end of contract EVs rather than sell them through auction sites as the capital losses are way above what they anticipated when they set the lease payment levels.  We also see this in lease payments not falling even though the list price of the cars have fallen as the three year depreciation is still expected to be the same.

This report suggests lease companies may also be drip feeding cars onto the market to help maintain residuals

Setterfield pointed to the steps that fleets are taking to manage their disposals so as not to flood the market, citing as an example Polestar, which takes back ex-lease cars to sell directly from its website.

The British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association agrees that its members are thinking more strategically about disposing of ex-fleet EVs. It said: “EVs are expensive, and the consequences of disposing of them en masse can be severe. 

So instead, some firms are drip-feeding cars into the market or taking them back and re-leasing them to customers attracted by their lower monthly payments.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/used-ev-values-could-collapse-due-fleet-dumping

Still, lower residuals means better prices for used car buyers. WBAC are currently offering £10,270 for my old Leaf (original cost £23.5k) which is 3.5 years old so depreciation is not out of line with ICEv prices. That is an improvement on March when the figure was £9,500. My son is hoping values have bottomed out. 

JKenH

Some insight (albeit from America) on what’s behind the problems with public EV chargers.

What Makes EV Charging Stations Fail?

Based on network data monitored across the United States this year, the most common reasons for failed EV charging sessions are problems with:

• station connectivity: 55 percent
• internal station faults or errors: 38 percent
• charging connector or cable: 4 percent
• credit-card reader: 1 percent
• display screen: 1 percent

All other causes are minor—including the credit-card readers much pilloried by Elon Musk. The Tesla CEO has turned down public funding to expand the Supercharger network over state and federal requirements that chargers offer payment methods other than phone apps.

Meanwhile, EV networks decline to provide details on their reliability metrics, sometimes claiming network uptime of 97 percent or better. If uptime is defined as a station responding to a ping from a central computer, that may well be true. That response, however, has very little to do with whether that station can actually collect payment and then provide a charge at an acceptable rate to an EV that drives up to it.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45309960/ev-charging-stations-problems/

silverwhistle

Yesterday I was in the supermarket car park when I saw my old MG ZS EV drive up, so stopped to chat to the new owner.

She was enjoying the drive but lamenting the depreciation. I did tell her that I'd got more for my car at two years old than I'd paid for it, and the dealer must have made a profit.. She admitted they should have done more research and I agreed that I'd been very lucky with my timings.

If the current wider range of second hand cars with lower S/H values had been available when I first looked that would have been my choice. As it is mine was bought new and now haven't a clue what it is on the market as it does the job it's required to do and I have no intention of selling. Last two ICE cars were 12+ years old when disposed of so it will be interesting to see how the MG4 fares.

JKenH

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

EV tyres lasting 6,350 miles fewer than petrol or diesel, fleet data shows

Tyres fitted to electric vehicles (EVs) are lasting, on average, 6,350 fewer miles than those fitted to petrol or diesel cars, new fleet data from epyx suggests.

The first tyre change for electric cars takes place at an average of 17,985 miles and 551 days old, compared to 24,641 miles and 585 days for hybrids, and 24,335 and 670 days for petrol and diesel cars.

The average replacement tyre fitted to an EV was 18.59 inches and cost £207 while, for petrol and diesel cars, the corresponding figures were 17.40 inches and £130.

https://www.motorfinanceonline.com/news/tires-fleet-motor-finance/

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

Reed_Richards

JKenH said:

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

Because EVs are so heavy?

Netexporter

EVs are, on average, only about 15% heavier than their direct ICE equivalent. I think the tyre wear is due to higher torque, particularly in front wheel drive models.

I bought my EV with a bit over 20k miles on the clock. The dealer had replaced the front tyres but the rear ones barely look worn.

michaels

JKenH said:

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

EV tyres lasting 6,350 miles fewer than petrol or diesel, fleet data shows

Tyres fitted to electric vehicles (EVs) are lasting, on average, 6,350 fewer miles than those fitted to petrol or diesel cars, new fleet data from epyx suggests.

The first tyre change for electric cars takes place at an average of 17,985 miles and 551 days old, compared to 24,641 miles and 585 days for hybrids, and 24,335 and 670 days for petrol and diesel cars.

The average replacement tyre fitted to an EV was 18.59 inches and cost £207 while, for petrol and diesel cars, the corresponding figures were 17.40 inches and £130.

https://www.motorfinanceonline.com/news/tires-fleet-motor-finance/

Fleet data suggests EV tyres only last 75% of the distance they do on other cars and are more expensive, costing 4.6p per mile compared to 2.1p for petrol and diesel cars.

Slightly unfair as it appears they are on average specced with bigger wheels which in general means more expensive tyres but this is not enough to overcome the full difference in tyre life.