EV Discussion thread

JKenH

Petriix said:

Motorway bids aren't an indication of value, just what a dealer is willing to pay in order to sell on at a decent profit. You'd likely get way more through a private sale. 

You might get private buyers for some of the sub £20k cars but above that sort of value people are generally happy to pay a premium for a car from a dealer and often need finance which again is easier if buying from a dealer. Sellers are often happy to take a little less for the ease and security of trading in. I am perfectly comfortable buying and selling cars like an MX5 privately and I might also buy a sub £20k EV privately as I hope I have learned a little over the past 4 years. Many EV buyers are buying for the first time and buying privately may be a bit of a step into the unknown. Private buyers also tend to be canny and with the likes of websites like WBAC can get a good idea of trade values and offer just a little over those. I have a car dealer friend who buys cars privately by doing just that. 

Grumpy_chap

michaels said:

If only one could buy second hand at those sort of prices!

Well, actually those trade prices seem pretty high to me compared to the forecourt prices, it is not leaving a massive margin TBH.

I have picked the TM3 LR from the list:

4

Tesla

Model 3 Long Range AWD

2021

13,186

£30,043

Now, I know, as I was in the market in May and June for a TM3 or TMY. 
In June, I was offered by Tesla a TM3 LR, red LR at £38k 2021, 23k miles, with Enhanced Autopilot, £38k. (I just double checked the marketing e-mail they sent for record.)
I ended up purchasing a brand new TM3 LR in white as it was not a massive amount higher, but without the Enhanced Autopilot.

If that TM3 LR retailed outside the Tesla dealership network, it would probably be cheaper than the Tesla Dealer. Most TM3's don't have the Enhanced Autopilot and most have a cheaper colour than the red, so that £30k car could quite possibly be on the forecourt at £35k.  For that £5k, the Dealer needs to cover their finance and business operating costs, valet the car, service / inspection and cover warranty costs and even make a profit.  It is not a massive profit.

I know there is a time difference but I can't imagine that anything overwhelming will have changed in the period from June (when I was buying) to July & August (when the Motorway data covers).

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

michaels said:

If only one could buy second hand at those sort of prices!

Well, actually those trade prices seem pretty high to me compared to the forecourt prices, it is not leaving a massive margin TBH.

I have picked the TM3 LR from the list:

4

Tesla

Model 3 Long Range AWD

2021

13,186

£30,043

Now, I know, as I was in the market in May and June for a TM3 or TMY. 
In June, I was offered by Tesla a TM3 LR, red LR at £38k 2021, 23k miles, with Enhanced Autopilot, £38k. (I just double checked the marketing e-mail they sent for record.)
I ended up purchasing a brand new TM3 LR in white as it was not a massive amount higher, but without the Enhanced Autopilot.

If that TM3 LR retailed outside the Tesla dealership network, it would probably be cheaper than the Tesla Dealer. Most TM3's don't have the Enhanced Autopilot and most have a cheaper colour than the red, so that £30k car could quite possibly be on the forecourt at £35k.  For that £5k, the Dealer needs to cover their finance and business operating costs, valet the car, service / inspection and cover warranty costs and even make a profit.  It is not a massive profit.

I know there is a time difference but I can't imagine that anything overwhelming will have changed in the period from June (when I was buying) to July & August (when the Motorway data covers).

I just had a quick look on Autotrader locally and saw this private sale 2021 TM3LR with 18k miles for £31,220.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309071668965

CarSupermarket are offering this 71 plate TM3LR 14k miles for £33,498.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309151997980

JKenH

The figure of 24% EV sales to private buyers has already been mentioned on here but what I hadn’t realised was this figure was 36% a year earlier. I haven’t done the sums but I believe this translates to a drop in the number of new EVs sold to private individuals year on year. 

Sales of Electric Cars to Private Owners Drops Amid Lack of Financial Subsidies

Sales of electric cars to private drivers have plunged amid the cutting of financial incentives and the overall uncertainty over maintaining electric vehicles (EVs).

Private owners were less eager to buy electric cars in the first half of 2023 than the same time last year.

Figures released by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) showed that 24.2 percent of all EVs were registered to private retail-buying motorists this year. This compares poorly to last year’s 36.3 percent.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6367380/ev-discussion-thread/p200

Edit: the comparative figures are reported in the Sun having originally been reported in The Times

In the first half of this year, 37,000 new electric cars were registered to private retail-buying motorists, or just 24.2 per cent of all EVs.

That is down from the 41,800 EVs sold to private motorists in the first half of last year when retail buyers accounted for 36.3 per cent of all electric car sales, reports The Times.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/24015170/drivers-stop-buying-electric-cars/

powerful_Rogue

michaels said:

JKenH said:

Used EV prices rise for first time in over a year

Used electric vehicle prices may have turned a corner after recording their first monthly increase in over a year.

Used EV prices increased 0.8% MoM in September; the first monthly increase since August 2022

Auto Trader data for September reveals second-hand EV prices have risen 0.8% at the mid-way point, marking the first monthly increase since August 2022.

The data comes from its Retail Price Index, which also shows that used EV demand is outpacing supply levels for the first time in 14 months.

https://forecourttrader.co.uk/latest-news/smmt-calls-for-government-help-to-boost-ev-sales-to-reluctant-private-buyers/683317.article

I am surprised that used EV demand is now outpacing supply (it was considerably behind a few months ago) as in the new car market private buyers only account for around a quarter of EV sales and fleets are unlikely to be buying used cars. Perhaps the leasing companies are hanging onto the cars coming off their first leases and re-leasing them to used car buyers to avoid crystallising the loss from falling residuals. Or, maybe, the price of used EVs has fallen to the level where they are just too good to pass up. Or, maybe, there is an airfield somewhere full of used EVs that no one wants to buy. 

I have been on the lookout for a leaf 62 and had thought that prices have bounced a bit off the floor over the last two months, there are no longer £11k high mileage or cat s/n cars around

After many many moths of searching, I picked up a leaf 62 today for £15k.

michaels

JKenH said:

The figure of 24% EV sales to private buyers has already been mentioned on here but what I hadn’t realised was this figure was 36% a year earlier. I haven’t done the sums but I believe this translates to a drop in the number of new EVs sold to private individuals year on year. 

Sales of Electric Cars to Private Owners Drops Amid Lack of Financial Subsidies

Sales of electric cars to private drivers have plunged amid the cutting of financial incentives and the overall uncertainty over maintaining electric vehicles (EVs).

Private owners were less eager to buy electric cars in the first half of 2023 than the same time last year.

Figures released by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) showed that 24.2 percent of all EVs were registered to private retail-buying motorists this year. This compares poorly to last year’s 36.3 percent.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6367380/ev-discussion-thread/p200

Edit: the comparative figures are reported in the Sun having originally been reported in The Times

In the first half of this year, 37,000 new electric cars were registered to private retail-buying motorists, or just 24.2 per cent of all EVs.

That is down from the 41,800 EVs sold to private motorists in the first half of last year when retail buyers accounted for 36.3 per cent of all electric car sales, reports The Times.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/24015170/drivers-stop-buying-electric-cars/

Of course 12 months ago many were just getting to the front of waiting lists and the expectation might well have been for the limited depreciation to continue.  As the waiting lists disappeared and depreciation hit it soddenly became a very different proposition for those not buying on lease.

michaels

powerful_Rogue said:

michaels said:

JKenH said:

Used EV prices rise for first time in over a year

Used electric vehicle prices may have turned a corner after recording their first monthly increase in over a year.

Used EV prices increased 0.8% MoM in September; the first monthly increase since August 2022

Auto Trader data for September reveals second-hand EV prices have risen 0.8% at the mid-way point, marking the first monthly increase since August 2022.

The data comes from its Retail Price Index, which also shows that used EV demand is outpacing supply levels for the first time in 14 months.

https://forecourttrader.co.uk/latest-news/smmt-calls-for-government-help-to-boost-ev-sales-to-reluctant-private-buyers/683317.article

I am surprised that used EV demand is now outpacing supply (it was considerably behind a few months ago) as in the new car market private buyers only account for around a quarter of EV sales and fleets are unlikely to be buying used cars. Perhaps the leasing companies are hanging onto the cars coming off their first leases and re-leasing them to used car buyers to avoid crystallising the loss from falling residuals. Or, maybe, the price of used EVs has fallen to the level where they are just too good to pass up. Or, maybe, there is an airfield somewhere full of used EVs that no one wants to buy. 

I have been on the lookout for a leaf 62 and had thought that prices have bounced a bit off the floor over the last two months, there are no longer £11k high mileage or cat s/n cars around

After many many moths of searching, I picked up a leaf 62 today for £15k.

Congratulations, please report back on what charge rate (and curve) you get on a 100kw+ rapid and whether it suffers form rapid gate (much slower charging on the second and subsequent fast charges on the same day due to battery temperature increases). Thanks

JKenH

Rishi says the ban won’t come in until 2035 so we can all buy ICE cars if we want but the car companies still have to sell a quota of EVs. The figures aren’t confirmed but suggest 80% EV sales by 2030.

Car firms will still be forced to sell more electric vehicles every year despite petrol and diesel ban delay

The move has cast doubt over the implementation of the ZEV mandate, which would force manufacturers to sell an increasing share of electric vehicles each year between 2024 and 2035.

But today, business secretary Kemi Badenoch confirmed to the BBC that it will go ahead as planned, with car firms soon to be forced to meet strict quotas for selling electric cars starting next year.

Projection for annual ZEV mandate targets 

2024: 22% of new car sales electric

2025: 28% 

2026: 33% 

2027: 38% 

2028: 52% 

2029: 66% 

2030: 80% 

2031: 84% 

2032: 88% 

2033: 92% 

2034: 96% 

2035: 100% 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-12545349/Car-firms-forced-sell-electric-vehicles-mandate.html

thevilla

michaels said:

powerful_Rogue said:

michaels said:

JKenH said:

Used EV prices rise for first time in over a year

Used electric vehicle prices may have turned a corner after recording their first monthly increase in over a year.

Used EV prices increased 0.8% MoM in September; the first monthly increase since August 2022

Auto Trader data for September reveals second-hand EV prices have risen 0.8% at the mid-way point, marking the first monthly increase since August 2022.

The data comes from its Retail Price Index, which also shows that used EV demand is outpacing supply levels for the first time in 14 months.

https://forecourttrader.co.uk/latest-news/smmt-calls-for-government-help-to-boost-ev-sales-to-reluctant-private-buyers/683317.article

I am surprised that used EV demand is now outpacing supply (it was considerably behind a few months ago) as in the new car market private buyers only account for around a quarter of EV sales and fleets are unlikely to be buying used cars. Perhaps the leasing companies are hanging onto the cars coming off their first leases and re-leasing them to used car buyers to avoid crystallising the loss from falling residuals. Or, maybe, the price of used EVs has fallen to the level where they are just too good to pass up. Or, maybe, there is an airfield somewhere full of used EVs that no one wants to buy. 

I have been on the lookout for a leaf 62 and had thought that prices have bounced a bit off the floor over the last two months, there are no longer £11k high mileage or cat s/n cars around

After many many moths of searching, I picked up a leaf 62 today for £15k.

Congratulations, please report back on what charge rate (and curve) you get on a 100kw+ rapid and whether it suffers form rapid gate (much slower charging on the second and subsequent fast charges on the same day due to battery temperature increases). Thanks

Hi, we took our Leaf to Devon from Telford in the summer.  On the return we charged at Exeter and a top up at Bristol.  Max we saw was 74kw from 20% dropping to 40kw approaching 80%.  After the 70mph m5 drive and top up charge temperature was only about 65% up the scale.  Top up still 40+kw starting from over 50% from memory. Ambient temp was warm but not hot.  Tbh it performed better than expected although a 3rd charge may have been more difficult.  I suppose the 60kwh battery is far less stressed than the 40 it's just a shame they stopped selling it 😢

All above from memory so rose tinted glasses included 😁

Grumpy_chap

I have noted a change in the recommended charge level for my TM3.

When I collected the car, it had been charged to 90% and the representative said that was the recommendation for daily use and to only charge to 100% when specifically required for a trip.  The owners manual said to charge to 90% for my battery type.

I noticed the last three times I plugged in, the app has said "Charge Tip:  80% recommended for daily driving"
Are other owners seeing the recommended charge level revised, and does anyone know why?