EV Discussion thread

1961Nick

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

noitsnotme said:

1961Nick said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I typed the first three lines back in and the post vanished.
I hope this works as a picture.


I have no idea why that post would not post

Are you changing to Intelligent Octopus to take advantage of the 7.5p off peak tariff? That would clearly make a huge difference to your running costs. If you apply while you are still using the granny charger, you'll probably get more than just the standard off peak hours at 7.5p - I have a mate who regularly gets over 12 hours @ 7.5p whenever he plugs his tesla in.

I'm unlikely to have a 60mpg diesel so I use the 38mpg I achieved from my 435d for comparison. Over the course of a year my fuel costs are reduced by £2000.

I used IO for a month, charging the car on the granny charger and was getting those long periods of 7.5p use.  Sometimes 12 hours like your friend.

Then a couple of apps (Octopus Compare and Octo-Aid) both showed Tracker would have been cheaper so I switched to that.

The month on IO averaged out at around 21p per unit for everything (house and car) even with the long off peak periods.  Tracker has averaged around 18p so far.  Not a huge saving, maybe saved £20-£30 or so in the last month, but a lot simpler with Tracker not having to worry about scheduling car/washing machine/dishwasher to run over night.

I’ll stick with Tracker for now until the prices rise and then switch back to IO.  Will hopefully have solar fitted in a few months so won’t need to go back to Tracker in the future.

IO works for me because I have 19.2kWh of battery storage which brings the overall cost of import to around 8p/kWh. Those 6 hours of off peak IO is just enough to fill the battery (90% DOD) from empty in winter.

Nick, with those batteries, if you haven’t done so already it would pay you to move off deemed export and get paid 15p for export. You could even fill your batteries in summer and export at a profit. 

Can I get 15p/kWh for export & have IO as well?

At the moment I export around 55kWh per annum which works out at around £2 kWh thanks to deeming.

JKenH

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

noitsnotme said:

1961Nick said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I typed the first three lines back in and the post vanished.
I hope this works as a picture.


I have no idea why that post would not post

Are you changing to Intelligent Octopus to take advantage of the 7.5p off peak tariff? That would clearly make a huge difference to your running costs. If you apply while you are still using the granny charger, you'll probably get more than just the standard off peak hours at 7.5p - I have a mate who regularly gets over 12 hours @ 7.5p whenever he plugs his tesla in.

I'm unlikely to have a 60mpg diesel so I use the 38mpg I achieved from my 435d for comparison. Over the course of a year my fuel costs are reduced by £2000.

I used IO for a month, charging the car on the granny charger and was getting those long periods of 7.5p use.  Sometimes 12 hours like your friend.

Then a couple of apps (Octopus Compare and Octo-Aid) both showed Tracker would have been cheaper so I switched to that.

The month on IO averaged out at around 21p per unit for everything (house and car) even with the long off peak periods.  Tracker has averaged around 18p so far.  Not a huge saving, maybe saved £20-£30 or so in the last month, but a lot simpler with Tracker not having to worry about scheduling car/washing machine/dishwasher to run over night.

I’ll stick with Tracker for now until the prices rise and then switch back to IO.  Will hopefully have solar fitted in a few months so won’t need to go back to Tracker in the future.

IO works for me because I have 19.2kWh of battery storage which brings the overall cost of import to around 8p/kWh. Those 6 hours of off peak IO is just enough to fill the battery (90% DOD) from empty in winter.

Nick, with those batteries, if you haven’t done so already it would pay you to move off deemed export and get paid 15p for export. You could even fill your batteries in summer and export at a profit. 

Can I get 15p/kWh for export & have IO as well?

At the moment I export around 55kWh per annum which works out at around £2 kWh thanks to deeming.

Yes, you can now.

Sunny money: Octopus Energy quadruples export rates for smart tariff customers

London, 6th September 2023 - Global energy and technology company Octopus Energy has announced a significant financial boost for customers with an electric vehicle (EV) and solar panels, allowing them to combine both their ‘Intelligent Octopus’ and ‘Outgoing Octopus’ tariffs.

Customers who so far combined ‘Intelligent Octopus’ for importing power with Octopus’ ‘Smart Export Guarantee’ (SEG) tariff for exporting power will automatically get upgraded to ‘Outgoing Octopus’.

Around 4,000 existing customers and new customers will benefit from higher payments going forward, receiving almost four times the payments than they were before - with an increased fixed rate of 15p for every kilowatt hour (kWh) of electricity they export, rather than 4.1p per kWh on the SEG.

 https://octopus.energy/press/sunny-money-octopus-energy-quadruples-export-rates-for-smart-tariff-customers/

noitsnotme

1961Nick said:

noitsnotme said:

1961Nick said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I typed the first three lines back in and the post vanished.
I hope this works as a picture.


I have no idea why that post would not post

Are you changing to Intelligent Octopus to take advantage of the 7.5p off peak tariff? That would clearly make a huge difference to your running costs. If you apply while you are still using the granny charger, you'll probably get more than just the standard off peak hours at 7.5p - I have a mate who regularly gets over 12 hours @ 7.5p whenever he plugs his tesla in.

I'm unlikely to have a 60mpg diesel so I use the 38mpg I achieved from my 435d for comparison. Over the course of a year my fuel costs are reduced by £2000.

I used IO for a month, charging the car on the granny charger and was getting those long periods of 7.5p use.  Sometimes 12 hours like your friend.

Then a couple of apps (Octopus Compare and Octo-Aid) both showed Tracker would have been cheaper so I switched to that.

The month on IO averaged out at around 21p per unit for everything (house and car) even with the long off peak periods.  Tracker has averaged around 18p so far.  Not a huge saving, maybe saved £20-£30 or so in the last month, but a lot simpler with Tracker not having to worry about scheduling car/washing machine/dishwasher to run over night.

I’ll stick with Tracker for now until the prices rise and then switch back to IO.  Will hopefully have solar fitted in a few months so won’t need to go back to Tracker in the future.

IO works for me because I have 19.2kWh of battery storage which brings the overall cost of import to around 8p/kWh. Those 6 hours of off peak IO is just enough to fill the battery (90% DOD) from empty in winter.

Yes, that’s what I plan to do once I have solar panels and battery fitted.  There should be no need for me to go back to Tracker at that point.

Can I ask what make of battery and inverter you have and would you recommend?

Grumpy_chap

Petriix said:

I can only guess it might be all the equals and percentage symbols triggering some crude antixss filter.

Well, with even more posts vanishing, I eventually asked the Forum Team.  They have responded to explain my misdemeanour and I promise it won't happen again, Sir.

JKenH

A couple of stories from US and EU.

U.S. House adopts bill to stop California gas vehicle ban with support from Ohio GOPs

The “Preserving Choice in Vehicle Purchases Act” would keep California from proceeding with an effort that would effectively ban the sale of new internal combustion engine (ICE) cars and light trucks by 2035 in favor of so-called “zero-emission vehicles” (ZEV), like plug-in hybrid, full battery-electric, and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

It passed in a largely party-line 222 to 190 vote.

If California’s plan went through, Bowling Green Republican Rep. Bob Latta says 17 states whose residents buy 40% of the nation’s new cars would follow California’s standards. The bill he cosponsored would keep the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency from granting a waiver request to allow California’s ban.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/09/us-house-adopts-bill-to-stop-california-gas-vehicle-ban-with-support-from-ohio-gops.html

American attitudes to personal freedoms are significantly different to those this side of the pond. 

EU to launch anti-subsidy investigation into Chinese EVs

The European Union (EU) has said it would launch an anti-subsidy investigation into Chinese electric vehicles (EVs), citing concern about market distortion.

European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen made the announcement during her annual address to EU lawmakers, expressing apprehension about Chinese electric cars flooding global markets.

“Their price is kept artificially low by huge state subsidies. This is distorting our market,” von der Leyen said.

“And as we do not accept this distortion from the inside in our market, we do not accept this from the outside.”

If found in breach of trade rules, this could lead to punitive tariffs being imposed.

Von der Leyen also noted the EU was wary of a potential repeat of how China took control of solar cell manufacturing a decade ago.

https://www.just-auto.com/news/eu-to-launch-anti-subsidy-investigation-into-chinese-evs/

It is going to be over a year before the investigation concludes and what happens then will no doubt depend on how many Chinese EVs are being sold in the EU and how many German cars are still being sold in China. Who has most to lose?

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

EU to launch anti-subsidy investigation into Chinese EVs

This was on the BBC news earlier in the week.
It rather came across as though the EU were simply doing the investigation as a precursor to introducing tariffs. 
The BBC article rather implied that it was a decision already that there would be tariffs, so the investigation was to establish at what level these tariffs would apply.
Ursula von der Leyen was indicating that EU wanted to agree that the same tariffs will be applied in the other great legacy automotive region - Japan.  (Japan to restrict Chinese imports, not EU tariffs on vehicles from Japan.)

That last part rather made me chuckle as I recall when the cars from Japan were disruptor manufacturers.  There remains enough time in my life-time for the new Chinese automotive manufacturers to become established and the next geographical region of disruptors to emerge.  Possibly twice.

The investigation into subsidies on cars from China alone seems to have missed out another large producing market which is currently subsidising the car industry - USA.

The final point in the BBC article was that if these tariffs are applied in unison by EU and Japan, all the cheap cars from China would be sold in UK so it would be good for UK consumer.  BBC did not reference UK car manufacturing.

michaels

More market failure, can anyone remember what rapid chargers cost per unit before the price spike.  Wholesale electricity is way down on those peaks but has anyone seen and big reduction in rapid charger prices?

Martyn1981

michaels said:

More market failure, can anyone remember what rapid chargers cost per unit before the price spike.  Wholesale electricity is way down on those peaks but has anyone seen and big reduction in rapid charger prices?

For Tesla, I think the prices were around 20p to 25p in 2021, with peak prices around 30p. Now they are about 34p-36p with peak times around 45p. But they were higher when prices peaked.

michaels

That is cheap, other chargers seem to be between 69p and 99p with no reductions since electricity prices fell back - apparently they averaged about 45p before they went up.

JKenH

Big Discounts on Electric Cars!

YouTube video from EVM reviewing some of the discounts currently available on brand new EVs (not pre registered). I’ve taken a few screenshots from the video so the quality isn’t great but the prices are. You can now buy a brand new EV for less than £20k.

https://youtu.be/KMNbrxJdSWo?si=z1zE-mTFLpTG4D9x