EV Discussion thread

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

thevilla said:

The Focus (in 2011) cost half the price of the Leaf (about £30k).  

If you don't think an EV would work for you fine but new models appear every day.  

This is quite interesting.  
I don't have new car price data from 10 years ago, but £15k for a new Focus versus £30k for a new Leaf then seems plausible.

Ford don't seem to be quoting a price or taking order for new Focus cars right now because of supply chain disruption, but Puma is listed "from £24k" and Mondeo "from £27K" so "from £25k" for the Focus would seem to be in the ball-park.

Nissan website is listing the Leaf as "from £29k".

There's all quite a bit of guess-work in the above, but that would suggest a significant narrowing of capital difference between ICE and EV over the period.  One comparison as an example is prone to certain limitations in interpretation and generalisation, but this might show the direction of travel.

I do think an EV would work for me.  Financially it may not work out unless my mileage increased. 
The TM3 was offered above as a comparison alternative to Mondeo / A4 type car.  TM3 is around £50k while the Mondeo / A4 is around £30k, or £20k used (couple of years / 25k miles).
Fuel / energy saving  10 pence per mile for an EV - the pay-back for the EV is quite long even if only considering new car versus new car.  If used ICE is also considered, the challenge gets bigger still.

If the Leaf / Focus example above proves to be the norm, then the capital delta will reduce.  In the mean-time, a prospective 10k miles per year buyer of a car like below might struggle to make the financial case for EV:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206307307605
It's almost two-for-the-price-of-one against a comparable TM3:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206146792503

Give a secondhand 40kWh Leaf a try (£20k or so). I had a diesel Golf when I had my 30kWh Leaf but got rid of it when I got my 40kWh. That was two + years ago though and chargers weren’t as busy although they were less reliable/harder to use (apps/RFID cards needed etc). Sounding like a fanboy here but I am sure you will love driving the car and won’t want to go back to an ICEv. I just seem to have bad luck with public chargers and don’t believe folks when they say you can avoid that with planning. Planning will mean you know where the chargers are but unless you have someone watching Zap-Map for you as you drive you won’t know if they are free. I have lined up a dozen chargers for some runs. This is the one I did to go to mid Wales and back. Quite a lot of work.

1961Nick

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

shinytop said:

gefnew said:

The police seem to dislike bev cars when on patrol.
Electric vehicles not suitable for police response says PCC - BBC News

It'll be fine when all the crims are in EVs too. Just arrest them when they run out or are driving around really slowly trying to find a working charger.

The crims have still got to figure out how to steal an EV ... none so far this year.

You would think a TM3P would be the dream car for TWOCkers to go for.

Not when I reduce the maximum speed to 30mph using the app. It won't take the Police too long to catch up with it in their new Cybertruck.

Petriix

I'm still struggling to get used to current prices. New Nissan Leaf 40s were (briefly) available for just over £21k in 2019 when I was looking. I was really looking at the second hand market and assumed that 2 year old models would be available for ~ £15k but they never seemed to go below £18k unless they were damaged.

Coastalwatch

Charging away from home is something of a challenge and on the odd occasion almost a battle of wits, so I have every sympathy for anyone arriving at a charge pump and the thing is out of service or just falls over when trying to hook up.

I have to confess that for the vast majority of it's life our Leaf has been charged from home. Being retired that's where we are most of the time and with an abundance of Solar panels on the roof who wouldn't. We do break out from our domesticated way of life occasionally and most notably when heading off to distant Swanage a couple of times a year, usually first weekend of March and October. So questionable temps for the 220 or so mile journey with a vehicle range of circa 150 miles. With a service area and Ecotricity charging points at Cobham Services, almost halfway, we made it there and back each time without a hitch for the first two years and thought how well everything worked.

The following year and after charging up as normal on the Friday outward journey, events did rather conspire against us as on the return leg when arriving back on the Monday the pumps were surrounded by barriers with workman and pneumatic drills removing our hitherto trusty chargers! Bit of a shock, but with the next services enroute being Clacket Lane and within range we headed off and successfully charged there. A narrow escape certainly.

We did suffer a charger falling over subsequently at Cobham since that time. Ironically it coincided with the petrol shortage which led to sizeable queues at garage forecourts and blocking of lanes in motorway service areas. With no other charger available there and after a phone call to Gridserve we learned there wasn't a fast charger en route within range. It left us with no option other than heading back from whence we'd come to a charger ten miles distant! Bl**dy inconvenient but as there was no strict deadline to adhere too no real harm was done, other than temporarily to my blood pressure. On the plus side we did discover the location to be in an elevated position with a panoramic view overlooking Reigate. It was complete with a picnic area and cafe so one to remember in future.

Other enroute charging experiences have all been fairly incident free apart from one when the charger dropped out several times but eventually supplied the charge desired. Even a visit to this years Fully Charged show at Farnborough, requiring a charge in each direction went smoothly. I'd been convinced there would be hundreds of EV's going to and from the event at similar times and imagined queues at all available pumps. Certainly the car parks there were full of EV's but wiith respect to charging enroute my fears proved to be unfounded and we charged without a hitch in each direction.

We're off to Wales in a couple of weeks to view 'our' turbine on it's open day, so there will be a few more charging experiences to navigate on the journey to and from, not to mention in between the various locations we are planning to stop at on a grand tour.

Judging by some of the tales on here we've been luckier than some but having spent a lifetime chasing the clock while in pursuit of simply earning a living we happily take life at a more leisurely pace these days and if it means chatting with a fellow EV'er while waiting for their charge to complete then I'm content for it to happen.

JKenH

1961Nick said:

shinytop said:

gefnew said:

The police seem to dislike bev cars when on patrol.
Electric vehicles not suitable for police response says PCC - BBC News

It'll be fine when all the crims are in EVs too. Just arrest them when they run out or are driving around really slowly trying to find a working charger.

The crims have still got to figure out how to steal an EV ... none so far this year.

The Diesel&EcoCar article has finally appeared online.

https://dieselcar.com/its-official-an-ev-may-save-you-dosh-but-its-no-steal/

1961Nick

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

shinytop said:

gefnew said:

The police seem to dislike bev cars when on patrol.
Electric vehicles not suitable for police response says PCC - BBC News

It'll be fine when all the crims are in EVs too. Just arrest them when they run out or are driving around really slowly trying to find a working charger.

The crims have still got to figure out how to steal an EV ... none so far this year.

The Diesel&EcoCar article has finally appeared online.

https://dieselcar.com/its-official-an-ev-may-save-you-dosh-but-its-no-steal/

Even if the crim gains entry to a Tesla, they still have to get past the PIN code to drive it away. 

Martyn1981

Petriix said:

I'm still struggling to get used to current prices. New Nissan Leaf 40s were (briefly) available for just over £21k in 2019 when I was looking. I was really looking at the second hand market and assumed that 2 year old models would be available for ~ £15k but they never seemed to go below £18k unless they were damaged.

Apparently people were able to haggle a good few quid off, so good deals, the 60kWh Leaf is now about £36k which, is pretty good for a BEV that should manage 200+ miles in most situations. Don't know if haggling still works whilst we're still in the upside down.

@CW - The Cardiff Tesla supercharger is now open to all, though I think their 'not-a-Tesla' rates are quite steep, or drop by for a free charge, I'm not car'ist.

Coastalwatch

Cheers Mart, that's most thoughtful and great to learn that camaraderie amongst EV'ers still abounds.

A neighbour from another road visits to charge via the CoCharger App two or three times a week. With lots of surplus energy available during the month of June I'd simply message him saying the drive and charger were free if it was convenient for him to top up. Turned out that every other charge he had was free. Well, seemed a shame to just spread it around the locality for the Utilities to profit from, with no knowledge of our contribution, when he might at least appreciate it.

Coastalwatch

My, that's some task ahead then. I wonder if they'll actually make all 77,000 or whether they'll go bust in the attempt!

GM struggles with Hummer production ramp-up

General Motors has 77,000 pre-orders for its GMC Hummer EV electric pickup truck so far, but is currently producing just about 12 units per day, according to a Wall Street Journal report. GM says production of the model will increase sharply in the second half of the year.

On the one hand, this is due to the retrofitting of the electric car factory ‘Factory Zero’ in Detroit-Hamtramck, where the GMC Hummer EV is produced. On the other hand, GM expects to be able to use its own battery cells from a new factory in Ohio, which it is building together with LG Energy Solution, from late summer.

https://www.electrive.com/2022/07/05/general-motors-struggles-with-hummer-production-ramp-up/

JKenH

All-electric Alfa Romeo Giulia will come with 500-mile range

The Giulia EV’s underpinnings will offer a minimum of 800km (497 miles) of range, with battery sizes ranging from 101kWh to 118kWh, 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/alfa-romeo/giulia/356490/all-electric-alfa-romeo-giulia-will-come-500-mile-range