EV Discussion thread

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Also we can add in those that are interested in moving to a BEV, but can't find what they need yet, 

This is a real issue, the limited choice of car styles available as an EV, the prevalence of "giant" EV's, the limited choice of models in any sector, and the "just weird" EV's that are put out there.

My brother acquired an i3 about three months ago and has found that it works as an EV far better than he expected.  Unfortunately, he finds it works appallingly as a car.  That is nothing to do with it being an EV - it is just totally impractical with so many flaws that using the car is challenging.

Why can't manufacturer's understand that all people want from an EV is for it to do the job of their ICE in a broadly similar way?  There is enough challenge in the genuine concerns around change from the familiar to the new without needing to introduce extra obstacles.

There are still new models being launched without EV consideration - as an example, I quite like the BMW 2 "gran coupe" 4-door saloon.  Only new to the market but only ICE options.  It makes no sense.

Petriix

Ok, PHEVs as a gateway drug to the world of EV I can handle. 

1961Nick

Our nearest filling station is 7 miles away so it costs about £4 to get our diesel SUV there & back for a fill up. Our M3 would get about 320 miles on £4 ... which incidentally is about the range of the SUV on a full tank.

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Also we can add in those that are interested in moving to a BEV, but can't find what they need yet, 

This is a real issue, the limited choice of car styles available as an EV, the prevalence of "giant" EV's, the limited choice of models in any sector, and the "just weird" EV's that are put out there.

I keep seeing comments like that and thought them strange, but assumed OK. But just looked at the 2021 top selling list and perhaps the Audi E-Tron may qualify, but I'm not sure there's a prevalence of "giant" EV's.

10 best-selling electric cars in the UK 2021:

1. Tesla Model 3 (25,171)
2. Kia Niro (11,608)
3. VW ID.3 (10,232)
4. Nissan Leaf (7,474)
5. Audi E-Tron (6,857)
6. Hyundai Kona (6,494)
7. Renault Zoe (5,608)
8. MINI (5,441)
9. MG ZS (5,134)
10. Vauxhall Corsa (5,065)

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Also we can add in those that are interested in moving to a BEV, but can't find what they need yet, 

This is a real issue, the limited choice of car styles available as an EV, the prevalence of "giant" EV's, the limited choice of models in any sector, and the "just weird" EV's that are put out there.

I keep seeing comments like that and thought them strange, but assumed OK. But just looked at the 2021 top selling list and perhaps the Audi E-Tron may qualify, but I'm not sure there's a prevalence of "giant" EV's.

10 best-selling electric cars in the UK 2021:

1. Tesla Model 3 (25,171)
2. Kia Niro (11,608)
3. VW ID.3 (10,232)
4. Nissan Leaf (7,474)
5. Audi E-Tron (6,857)
6. Hyundai Kona (6,494)
7. Renault Zoe (5,608)
8. MINI (5,441)
9. MG ZS (5,134)
10. Vauxhall Corsa (5,065)

There is a difference between "best-selling" and what's available.

Mercedes EQ's were all large SUV's until the EQS (very big saloon) a few months back and now the EQE follows.
BMW i models are 3 SUV designs, 7 series, i4 and (I think being stopped) i3
Ford Mustang Mach-E = large SUV
VW, ID4, 5, BUZZ are all large.  Only the ID3 is near normal.  E-golf, E-Up are end of life models
Audi - ETron / ETron Sportback / ETron GT are all massive.  Only the Q4 ETron / Sportback get near to being "regular" sized but still at the large end of regular.
Toyota BZ4X is very large SUV

Oddly, the "what sells" list is proof that the manufacturers are not producing the cars that people want to buy.  
Out of interest, I wonder what version is meant by the "E-Tron" in the list - or is it all variants combined?

If someone is weighing up between a Mondeo / A4 / 3-Series / Superb, there is not much direct choice. 
Also, an MX5 / Z4 / coupe customer has limited EV choice.
The latter type maybe is always a niche market and so will be last to see the change, but the Mondeo / A4 / 3-Series / Superb has always been a very popular swathe of cars and nothing near to compete as EV alternatives. 
Again, in the very popular and big-selling Focus / Astra or Fiesta / Corsa market segments, the options for EV are far more limited.  Absolutely nothing as an alternative for the "premium" small car (A-Class / 2-Series) as an EV.

That's before the cost-difference and used options get added into the mix.

thevilla

We went from a 'big selling' 2011 1.6 Focus to a new 2021 Leaf 62kwh.  Apart from a slightly bigger boot they seem pretty similar and comparable.

The Focus (in 2011) cost half the price of the Leaf (about £30k).  Fuel cost for the Leaf is almost irrelevant and VED is zero.  We have one car and it's done about 11k miles in the last year.  As we're both retired, any additional journey time for charging isn't a big issue and is limited to a few times a year.  Performance is the best we've ever had in a car.

If you don't think an EV would work for you fine but new models appear every day.  Keep an open mind.  We will not go back to ICE.

Exiled_Tyke

@Martyn1981 You have just reminded me of a friend of mine. She needs to change her car for an 'automatic' having recently broken her wrist which won't be strong enough to change gears.  I suggested a BEV but she's reluctant because of the problems with long journeys. When we discussed it further, she realised that her fear was unfounded given the nature of the journeys she's likely to make.  However on further research and taking into account her budget and SH availability  it looks far more likely she'll end up with a PHEV. 

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Also we can add in those that are interested in moving to a BEV, but can't find what they need yet, 

This is a real issue, the limited choice of car styles available as an EV, the prevalence of "giant" EV's, the limited choice of models in any sector, and the "just weird" EV's that are put out there.

I keep seeing comments like that and thought them strange, but assumed OK. But just looked at the 2021 top selling list and perhaps the Audi E-Tron may qualify, but I'm not sure there's a prevalence of "giant" EV's.

10 best-selling electric cars in the UK 2021:

1. Tesla Model 3 (25,171)
2. Kia Niro (11,608)
3. VW ID.3 (10,232)
4. Nissan Leaf (7,474)
5. Audi E-Tron (6,857)
6. Hyundai Kona (6,494)
7. Renault Zoe (5,608)
8. MINI (5,441)
9. MG ZS (5,134)
10. Vauxhall Corsa (5,065)

There is a difference between "best-selling" and what's available.

Mercedes EQ's were all large SUV's until the EQS (very big saloon) a few months back and now the EQE follows.
BMW i models are 3 SUV designs, 7 series, i4 and (I think being stopped) i3
Ford Mustang Mach-E = large SUV
VW, ID4, 5, BUZZ are all large.  Only the ID3 is near normal.  E-golf, E-Up are end of life models
Audi - ETron / ETron Sportback / ETron GT are all massive.  Only the Q4 ETron / Sportback get near to being "regular" sized but still at the large end of regular.
Toyota BZ4X is very large SUV

Oddly, the "what sells" list is proof that the manufacturers are not producing the cars that people want to buy.  
Out of interest, I wonder what version is meant by the "E-Tron" in the list - or is it all variants combined?

If someone is weighing up between a Mondeo / A4 / 3-Series / Superb, there is not much direct choice. 
Also, an MX5 / Z4 / coupe customer has limited EV choice.
The latter type maybe is always a niche market and so will be last to see the change, but the Mondeo / A4 / 3-Series / Superb has always been a very popular swathe of cars and nothing near to compete as EV alternatives. 
Again, in the very popular and big-selling Focus / Astra or Fiesta / Corsa market segments, the options for EV are far more limited.  Absolutely nothing as an alternative for the "premium" small car (A-Class / 2-Series) as an EV.

That's before the cost-difference and used options get added into the mix.

Hiya, not sure I'm following that. You're original statement that I responded to, seemed to be suggesting that most BEV's were 'giant', but sales would disagree, so are you really just saying that you feel the choice of big BEV's is too good?

Also not sure how the 'what sells list' proves that the wrong cars are being manufactured (today), and they aren't the cars people want, given the long waiting list for them, and the significant annual growth in BEV sales?

Onto your list of missing choice, for the Mondeo / A4, I'd have thought the TM3 and Audi E-Tron 40, or Polestar 2* were close.

For the Focus / Astra, what's wrong with the Leaf, MG ZS, and perhaps the ID3, Kona and Niro?

Onto the Fiesta / Corsa, how about the Zoe and E-Corsa?

For the smallest cars, I'm sure they will come, there are simply loads in China, but for UK legality and legacy auto profitability, you may have to wait a bit longer, after all these are still the early days for significant BEV penetration, you can't expect a like for like equivalency yet.

*Not in the top 10 list above.

I agree with you about the cost difference, but that's just the way things are today, early days again.

[Edit - Hope you don't think I'm saying things are fine and sorted, just not sure they are all that bad either atm. M.]

JKenH

GRIDSERVE Electric Highway charging sessions triple since June 2021

I think this report confirms charging stations have got busier over the last year. Chargers have been built at new locations but at the Gridserve locations I have visited the number of chargers remains the same (but the contactless payment is most welcome.)

The GRIDSERVE Electric Highway is now one of the most highly utilised charging networks in the UK seems to say it all.

I am also sceptical about the 99% uptime claim. I must just have been very unlucky last week to find both the chargers at Leicester Forest West out of order.

https://www.zap-map.com/gridserve-electric-highway-birthday/

gefnew

The police seem to dislike bev cars when on patrol.
Electric vehicles not suitable for police response says PCC - BBC News