EV Discussion thread

Martyn1981

shinytop said:

I'm almost certainly over-thinking this, but perhaps be aware/careful at first when reversing, remember no gears, so you have ~300kW of power available. I didn't notice it, so maybe adjusted naturally, but a friend driving it, and reversing for the first time pointed out it was a bit 'nippy', and he's definitely a better driver than me.

Are you counting 'the sleeps to go' yet?

Is reverse restricted at all? Surely it won't let you go 100 mph in reverse? 

I assume so (by all manufacturers), but no way I'm going to test it out, especially given it would effectively have rear wheel steering.

Would confuse the hell out of the person who checks the speed camera photos!

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

I suppose different people have different priorities. Nissan’s business model must be working as it has been able to hike its prices for the Qashqai to above £40k and consistently keep it in the top 3 best selling cars in the UK in 2023. When Tesla launched the Model 3 at £42,990 in 2019, the most expensive Qashqai was £31,145.

I am not sure it is specifically of Nissan, but of all the "sub-premium" manufacturers creating a belief of supply shortage (at least partly true, but possibly being 'milked' also).
The price of "premium" cars has moved upward but not by anyway nearly as much as "sub-premium" brands.  Perhaps the "premium" brands always had a good chunk of margin inbuilt and are simply making less return but the "sub-premium" brands have increased prices as forced to by rising input costs.

It certainly is not just Nissan.  Top spec Superb is currently "from £41k" while the Superb model range starts "from £32k".  I am sure (can't prove it) that Superb would have been from mid-£20k's pre-COVID and would not have topped out in the VED supplement range.  Not sure what discounts are available against today's pricing, but the VED supplement would remain regardless.
By way of comparison, I looked at a LEXUS ES which was list £36k and discounted to £32k.  Current list is £40k for the same car.  Far less of an uplift compared to the change for Nissan and Skoda.

1961Nick

shinytop said:

I'm almost certainly over-thinking this, but perhaps be aware/careful at first when reversing, remember no gears, so you have ~300kW of power available. I didn't notice it, so maybe adjusted naturally, but a friend driving it, and reversing for the first time pointed out it was a bit 'nippy', and he's definitely a better driver than me.

Are you counting 'the sleeps to go' yet?

Is reverse restricted at all? Surely it won't let you go 100 mph in reverse? 

In theory it can go backwards as fast as it'll go forwards. Tesla have however software limited it to 15mph.

1961Nick

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I'm feeling a little bit EV-smug this morning as I realise what a good deal I've got with the new car.

My wife mentioned that one of her friends is about to place an order for a Nissan Qashqai and mentioned that it is over £40k so they get hit with the >£500 yearly VED for 5 years.  I am not sure whether they are actually paying >£40k or got a discount to bring the bill below that, but the Qashqai starts from around £27k so I think if I was choosing one, I'd plump for a specification that avoided the VED uplift.

Anyway, they will be around the £40k purchase price, or a bit over, plus the £2.5k in tax over a few years so that will take them to a similar outlay as the TM3.  I said to my wife that she should suggest they go for a TM3/Y and they'd save a lot over time.

The annual £0 VED annual renewal does make you smile.

The £0 routine servicing is also welcome as is the 2% BIK & 100% first year capital allowance.

But not for much longer. 😀 We have gone from two zero VED cars to two at the lowest rate (something like £155). I can live with that in the context of running a newish car. Most desirable EVs will be over the threshold when the new rate comes in in 2025. Will that impact on people’s choices? It would mine, but I’m not everyone.

The higher VED rate for £40k+ cars (currently ICE only), though,  for me is a real turn off. It is a visible deterrent in a way that servicing and maintenance costs aren’t. I am just too tight to shell out an extra £350 (or whatever the figure is) if I can get a similar age car that does the job avoiding the tax. 

We bought my wife’s car with a 5 year service plan costing £600 - one time hit (well for 5 years) that I factored into the purchase price. I’ve just had my Golf serviced at a VW dealership in Scunthorpe for £208 (including pollen filter). While the idea of no service cost is attractive, the idea of no annual service is less so, particularly if racking up the miles (which I don’t).   Things get picked up which might be safety critical - uneven tyre wear as an example. Perhaps Tesla’s business model works on the basis that if we don’t inspect the cars annually we don’t need to fix things we might spot during the warranty period. Perhaps I am being cynical there, but a lot of Tesla owners discover the front suspension problems when it’s too late, i.e. outside the warranty period. 

BIK and capital allowances don’t affect me nor any other private buyers (as opposed to company or lease drivers). For small businesses, self employed fleets, company cars and SalSac schemes it is a huge incentive to go EV but I am wondering if the sales flat lining we are seeing (in % terms) is due to that market now being saturated. The new rules were brought in wef 6 April 2020 and we are now 3 years on from that. Businesses and fleets with EV policies will no doubt renew with EVs but if a business was going to switch it probably would have done so by now. Similarly most looking to take advantage of the EV benefits of SalSac schemes will now already be on them. 

4 years of zero VED was more than I expected so that's been a bonus. The Tesla warranty is 4 years so that'll mean 2 MOTs to pick up any suspension faults & check the tyres - something a responsible motorist should be doing anyway. If you can't check tyres yourself then Kwik Fit will do a free inspection - & replace them at a competitive price if necessary.

The Model 3 has been a 'gift horse' for me & if the government want to pay me to run it for 4 years then I'm not going to complain.



 

silvercar

1961Nick said:

shinytop said:

I'm almost certainly over-thinking this, but perhaps be aware/careful at first when reversing, remember no gears, so you have ~300kW of power available. I didn't notice it, so maybe adjusted naturally, but a friend driving it, and reversing for the first time pointed out it was a bit 'nippy', and he's definitely a better driver than me.

Are you counting 'the sleeps to go' yet?

Is reverse restricted at all? Surely it won't let you go 100 mph in reverse? 

In theory it can go backwards as fast as it'll go forwards. Tesla have however software limited it to 15mph.

It can also jump to reverse while going forward!

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

Most desirable EVs will be over the threshold when the new rate comes in in 2025. Will that impact on people’s choices? It would mine, but I’m not everyone.

The higher VED rate for £40k+ cars (currently ICE only), though,  for me is a real turn off. 

I suspect that, by another couple of years when the >£40k VED supplement is affecting all cars, it will be the majority of cars anyway.
It is just another stealth tax that, when originally introduced, was largely met with a collective shrug as only affecting the rich.  As I mentioned above, those >£40k cars are now becoming far more the every-day family car.  There is no sign of the £40k threshold changing so it will just be more and more cars that are entrapped.

Martyn1981 said:

MG Metro, that takes me back, am I going mad or did they have a turbo indicator on the ceiling by the rear view mirror, that lit up? 

Not that I recall.

Martyn1981 said:

Is your brother sticking with the busyforks? 

I am not familiar with the term "busyforks" and, therefore, cannot comment.

Martyn1981 said:

I'm almost certainly over-thinking this, but perhaps be aware/careful at first when reversing, remember no gears, so you have ~300kW of power available. I didn't notice it, so maybe adjusted naturally, but a friend driving it, and reversing for the first time pointed out it was a bit 'nippy', and he's definitely a better driver than me.

I didn't notice the car having an excess of power on reversing on either of our test drives.  I made a point of reverse parking and parallel parking as both are important manoeuvres that can be tricky given the poor natural visibility through some modern cars.

Martyn1981 said:

Are you counting 'the sleeps to go' yet?

Now you mention it, eight sleeps 'till Santa  
I haven't really as there is a lot happening and I'm looking forward to our long weekend away first.  Quality R&R time with my wife beats a new car of any day 

Martyn1981 said:

Would confuse the hell out of the person who checks the speed camera photos!

1961Nick said:

In theory it can go backwards as fast as it'll go forwards. 

HaHa - makes me think back to the days when a friend had a 2CV and it was mentioned that the body could, apparently, be lifted off, spun 180 degrees and fixed back down to the chassis leaving everything else in place.  No idea whether that was true or not, and you'd have to play with lights and things, but we did always joke about the reaction that would get.  Top speed was not high, but it would still make you double take, call up your chiropractor just in case your neck break.

I suspect it is not actually true that the body can be swapped around like that as I've never seen a 2CV without all the right junk in all the right places.

Martyn1981

Eight sleeps, hope your my heart can take it.



Had to go looking in case I'd gone made: 

MG Metro Turbo Boost Gauge MK2 Roof Mounted in action

Coincidentally, the Trans-Am I had, also came in a turbo option, and had the turbo gauge outside, on the back of the bonnet bulge .... a bulge that was only on the drivers side. Now that's weird.



Sorry, 'busyforks' was the nickname on forums for Toyota's BEV, as it took a while to remember BZ4X.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Had to go looking in case I'd gone made: 

MG Metro Turbo Boost Gauge MK2 Roof Mounted in action

Yeah, mine was like that - amazing how much impression it left on me!

Martyn1981 said:

Sorry, 'busyforks' was the nickname on forums for Toyota's BEV, as it took a while to remember BZ4X.

My younger brother paid his deposit right back when so I imagine it would be difficult for him not to stick with it.


EDIT:  Woohoo - my floor mats just arrived

JKenH

Manufacturers are still talking about hydrogen powered motorcycles, both ICE and HFC.

'The future is wide open': BMW bosses on the challenge of electric and why it's not all over for combustion

Whilst some have stuck all their eggs firmly in the electric basket, others are choosing an entirely different path with Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha announcing a research partnership into the viability of hydrogen.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2023/june/bmw-bosses-future-interview/

Hydrogen motorcycles: MCN's guide to the different types and how they work

The major drawback with hydrogen is that, as a gas, it requires too much space on board the vehicle to be practical. But fuel cell vehicles use highly pressurised gas molecules of between 5000 and 10,000psi, which demand less space, but make refuelling potentially more difficult.

To get around that problem, car giants Toyota developed cylindrical cartridges that can be swapped once empty and remove part of the problem back in 2022.

The prototype is a cylinder, 40cm tall and 18cm in diameter, weighing in at 5kg when full. When development is complete, a canister is intended to provide 3.3kWh of power. A 3.3kWh li-ion battery would be a similar size but weighs around 25kg more.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/hydrogen-motorbike/

Grandad2b

Still quite a disadvantage relative to gasoline: a 5 litre tank of petrol would provide 171MJ which I calculate to be 47.5kWh

(and as I'm sure you are aware, even if motorcycle news is not, kWh is a unit of energy, not power).