EV Discussion thread

Martyn1981

Hiya CW, going off on a related but somewhat digressionary route here, but I seem to remember that import meters are supposed to be accurate to within 0% to -1%, so they may read fractionally low, but shouldn't be high ..... or I may have just made that up ..... but that would explain some of the meter loss figure.

What the hell, did some Googling, and I am wrong, they apparently need to be within +2.5% to -3.5%, which would still suggest an average 'loss' to the grid, in customers favour, and also partly explains where I got that strange 1% idea from!

1961Nick

Bitcoin mining has become one of the major reasons for electricity theft. In Countries where grid security is weak the problem is more pronounced (India?).

Coastalwatch

1961Nick said:

Bitcoin mining has become one of the major reasons for electricity theft. In Countries where grid security is weak the problem is more pronounced (India?).

Ah India! Long before Bitcoin, electricity theft was on an epidemic scale there. I've long believed it was their National pastime.

Just check out electricity lines India on google to see the likely reality!

Grumpy_chap

silvercar said:

Are you having a Tesla charger? If so, you will also need a PEN conductor installed. Don't ask me what that is, but the facebook Tesla groups all discuss that the Tesla charger doesn't have a built in PEN so any competent electrician should insist that you also have it.

Thanks for raising this.
I have to admit that, even with the detailed explanation given by @JSHarris I didn't fully understand this.
Anyway, I asked my electrician who advised that I don't need one as my supply has a dedicated earth connection.  If I had a PME supply, I would need one.

That seems to align with what @JSHarris said - I suppose my electrician is saying that I have a TT installation:

JSHarris said:

The PEN conductor is the incoming combined Protective Earth and Neutral that all homes with a TN-C-S electrical supply have (and that's the majority of UK homes).

What's needed for any charge point installation on a TN-C-S supply (used to be called PME) is PEN fault protection.  There's an insidious fault that occurs on the LV distribution network (outside the premises) where the PEN conductor can be damaged or go open circuit  without any obvious symptoms.  Because the PEN conductor for underground cables is often an outer sheath it's not unusual for that to be damaged without damage to the three line conductors.

When this happens the return current flows via the other two phases and the local three phase supply voltages become unstable.  One consequence of this is that the floating bit of the PEN conductor (the bit on the consumer side of the cable damage) can rise to a dangerously high voltage.  This then causes the protective earth conductor in those homes to rise to the same high voltage.

Not a problem indoors, as homes are an equipotential zone, with all conductive stuff bonded together.  This is a problem for anything outdoors though, like an EV.  The car body sill be connected to the incoming PEN conductor, and the ground around the car will be at or near true earth potential.  A PEN fault then gives rise to an electric shock risk for anyone standing outside who touches the car.

The fix if for either the charge point to include PEN fault protection (many do) or for PEN fault protection to be provided via a separate box in the supply, or by changing the house earthing system from TN-C-S to TT.  The latter was my solution - I didn't bother to use the incoming PEN to provide a protective earth, and instead have this provided via an earth electrode.

Grumpy_chap

Well, over the weekend I did my last "look-see" at the charging bank before it will be for real.  

There were 12 TESLA chargers, all of which were in use when we arrived.  First time to have seen this.

There were 6 non-TESLA chargers, of which 1 was available.  Three were ICE'd.  Two were occupied by EV's that were not plugged in.

I understand a TESLA can be charged at a non-TESLA charger, so long as you have the correct app / account set up, so that means all of my random checks have never seen a "no charger available" situation.

As for the three points that were ICE'd, I can only imagine this is down to arrogance, low intelligence, selfishness, jealousy, or some combination of those reasons.
The two EV's parked and not plugged in is rather more confusing.  Makes no logical sense at all.

JKenH

Volkswagen scales back EV production

Wulff indicates demand for electric vehicles is up to 30% below originally planned production figures.

“We are experiencing strong customer reluctance in the electric vehicle sector,” he told the North West newspaper.

"The registration numbers of electric vehicles continue to be high, but what concerns us is the current dip in demand - not only at Volkswagen but across all manufacturers," said Lies.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-scales-back-ev-production

JKenH

Interest in buying EVs goes up and outstrips desire for ICEs, new study finds

More than half of potential car buyers in the UK are considering getting an EV, a new study has found.

The latest Mobility Consumer Index from EY (Ernst & Young) – one of the Big Four accounting firms – quizzed 15,000 people across 20 nations who were thinking about buying a car.

Of the respondents, 1,003 were from the UK, and EY found that 54 per cent of potential buyers in the UK were looking at an electric vehicle.

That was up five percentage points from 49 per cent last year and, said EY, significantly higher than the 41 per cent of potential buyers who were considering an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/interest-in-buying-evs-goes-up-and-outstrips-desire-for-ices-new-study-finds/285986

JKenH

Research demonstrates that the switch to EVs is being led by company orders. 

EVs account for 40% of company car orders, reveals Fleet200 research

Full electric accounts for almost one in five cars on the fleets of major companies, double the proportion from a year ago, according to the findings of the Q1 insight research for the Fleet200 Strategy Network.

Diesel, meanwhile, has slumped to less than 40%, a further reduction from 54% last year, according to our Electric vehicle survey 2023.

The rate of electric transition continues to accelerate, contrary to some reports in the national press, with fleet order books filled with almost 40% electric cars and just 14% diesel.

Interestingly, the Fleet200 research reveals that plug-in hybrid is enjoying a resurgence, accounting for almost a third (30%) of orders, up from 26% a year ago. The duel-fuel option remains a popular stepping stone to full electric.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/fleet200-news/2023/06/13/evs-account-for-40-of-company-car-orders-reveals-fleet200-research

JKenH

Used EV market slump risks lease rental rise for fleets (video)

There is growing concern that the poor performance of electric vehicles (EVs) in the used market could force leasing companies to increase monthly rentals on new electric cars.

"The lease co's are massively concerned about EV remarketing performance.

"They are holding the line as best they can to try and make sure that they don't upset the applecart, particularly with lease rates for our members and for fleet managers across the country.”

But, he added: “They are really concerned about what's happening with remarketing performance and whether it needs to be reflected in some of these rates at the moment, which most of them have decided not to do."

He told a recent meeting of the Vehicle Remarketing Association (VRA) that consumer interest in EVs remains minimal against a backdrop of rising supply.

Appeaing alongside Hollick on Fleet News at 10, Gemma Dickson, group sales and marketing director, at vehicle rental company Herd Group, said: "Leasing companies are holding their prices... but there will come a point where (you ask) is this going to be viable."

Currently, while there is still a big proportion of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles being defleeted, any potential downturn in RVs can be softenend by profits gained through petrol and diesel vehicles.

But, Dickson said: "If the majority of your fleet becomes electric, then the RVs are a massive consideration."

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2023/06/13/used-tesla-model-3s-in-demand-at-aston-barclay

PS I haven’t watched the video as I am currently watching TV with my wife (her choice of programme) at the same time as surfing. 

silvercar

Grumpy_chap said:

Well, over the weekend I did my last "look-see" at the charging bank before it will be for real.  

There were 12 TESLA chargers, all of which were in use when we arrived.  First time to have seen this.

There were 6 non-TESLA chargers, of which 1 was available.  Three were ICE'd.  Two were occupied by EV's that were not plugged in.

I understand a TESLA can be charged at a non-TESLA charger, so long as you have the correct app / account set up, so that means all of my random checks have never seen a "no charger available" situation.

As for the three points that were ICE'd, I can only imagine this is down to arrogance, low intelligence, selfishness, jealousy, or some combination of those reasons.
The two EV's parked and not plugged in is rather more confusing.  Makes no logical sense at all.

No excuse for ICE of EVs not plugged. I guess the latter read “spaces for EV cars only” too literally!

You will likely find that the Tesla super chargers are cheaper than third party makes.

Of course, Tesla super chargers are plug and go, so if you found a car blocking a charger you could “helpfully” plug the offending car in, assuming that the owner forgot to do so. They will get a notification on their app either that they are charging or that they are fully charged and will incur idling fees of £1/minute!