EV Discussion thread

1961Nick

JKenH said:

Yahoo finance have reported 20% gross margins for BYD.

BYD, the Warren Buffett-backed “new energy” vehicle maker, reported quarterly profitfor the fourth quarter of $1.06 billion (7.3 billion yuan), up from $87.4 million (602 million yuan) a year earlier. That represents over a 1,100% return, or 11-fold increase, year over year.

Gross margins for the automaker increased to 20.3%, surging past the 3.7% it notched a year ago.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/byd-reports-strong-sales-growth-despite-tesla-price-cuts-145457642.html

Hmmm... $1.06B profit > 683,440 sales > 20% gross margin

That's a gross profit of $1550 per vehicle which would make the gross vehicle price $7750. Even with taxes, dealer margins, delivery etc, that's still not much per vehicle.

ABrass

1961Nick said:

The blanket £15,000 penalty doesn't make sense either because it incentivises manufacturers to concentrate on premium models with high margins rather than city cars. The city car market is the area where EV choice is poor & prices are disproportionally higher than a similar ICE vehicle.

It incentivises selling expensive ICE cars and any EV at all that they can rebrand.

This sort of framework makes entering the UK market more attractive for companies like BYD. So they have more incentive to bring a wider range of vehicles and a greater supply as they'll be able to sell on their credits.

Grumpy_chap

1961Nick said:

 The city car market is the area where EV choice is poor

I disagree.
Many EVs with small range well suited to city use - no range anxiety 

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Yahoo finance have reported 20% gross margins for BYD.

BYD, the Warren Buffett-backed “new energy” vehicle maker, reported quarterly profitfor the fourth quarter of $1.06 billion (7.3 billion yuan), up from $87.4 million (602 million yuan) a year earlier. That represents over a 1,100% return, or 11-fold increase, year over year.

Gross margins for the automaker increased to 20.3%, surging past the 3.7% it notched a year ago.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/byd-reports-strong-sales-growth-despite-tesla-price-cuts-145457642.html

Hmmm... $1.06B profit > 683,440 sales > 20% gross margin

That's a gross profit of $1550 per vehicle which would make the gross vehicle price $7750. Even with taxes, dealer margins, delivery etc, that's still not much per vehicle.

Hi. Is that a typo on the sales, they nearly hit 2m, with about 900k BEV's. Net profit was about 4%, but this year will probably be tougher on everyone selling in China. Apparently about 2,500 car dealers went bust over the last year. Hopefully NEV sales will hold up as a %age, even if total cars sales fall.

Edit - Sorry, my mistake Q4 only, but I think the $1bn figure is net profit, not gross.

1961Nick

Grumpy_chap said:

1961Nick said:

 The city car market is the area where EV choice is poor

I disagree.
Many EVs with small range well suited to city use - no range anxiety 

There are hardly any cheap electric city cars. That market is still owned by the ICEV. For many people their city car is their only vehicle & a tiny EV range just won't be practical.

Martyn1981

ABrass said:

1961Nick said:

The blanket £15,000 penalty doesn't make sense either because it incentivises manufacturers to concentrate on premium models with high margins rather than city cars. The city car market is the area where EV choice is poor & prices are disproportionally higher than a similar ICE vehicle.

It incentivises selling expensive ICE cars and any EV at all that they can rebrand.

This sort of framework makes entering the UK market more attractive for companies like BYD. So they have more incentive to bring a wider range of vehicles and a greater supply as they'll be able to sell on their credits.

That was something being complained about in Australia when they had no BEV incentives. Legacy auto weren't selling their BEV's in Aus, as they were prioritising deliveries to countries/regions where they needed the low emission sales to reduce penalties on their ICEV's. Of course, this left the door open to the companies with higher BEV %age production like BYD, and the BEV only companies like Tesla.

Production ramp up, and perhaps some falling demand in cars, is helping to resolve this a bit.

Grumpy_chap

I was thinking that island locations would be a good place to drive conversion to EV as the issue of battery range could be entirely irrelevant.

JKenH

I’m not known for citing CleanTechnica but I couldn’t pass on this one even if it’s a bit late.

Elon Musk: Tesla Cybertruck Is Dead, $20,000 City Car Is Coming

The great and powerful Musk then announced he had ordered his minions to come up with a simple battery electric car with 150 miles of range that can carry four people and a sheep dog wherever they need to go comfortably and safely. He said it might even have a few knobs and switches, as well as a hatchback for putting groceries and such inside.

“I can’t imagine why I didn’t do this sooner. It was right there in my first Master Plan, but I got blinded by becoming richer than Croesus and let my ambition cloud my judgement. I’m sorry,” Musk said. 

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/01/elon-musk-tesla-cybertruck-is-dead-20000-city-car-is-coming/

michaels

JKenH said:

I’m not known for citing CleanTechnica but I couldn’t pass on this one even if it’s a bit late.

Elon Musk: Tesla Cybertruck Is Dead, $20,000 City Car Is Coming

The great and powerful Musk then announced he had ordered his minions to come up with a simple battery electric car with 150 miles of range that can carry four people and a sheep dog wherever they need to go comfortably and safely. He said it might even have a few knobs and switches, as well as a hatchback for putting groceries and such inside.

“I can’t imagine why I didn’t do this sooner. It was right there in my first Master Plan, but I got blinded by becoming richer than Croesus and let my ambition cloud my judgement. I’m sorry,” Musk said. 

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/01/elon-musk-tesla-cybertruck-is-dead-20000-city-car-is-coming/

I wonder if this was published yesterday morning?

JKenH

Tesla deliveries reach record level after price reductions

Tesla Inc. delivered 422,875 cars worldwide in the first quarter, setting a record after it cut prices to combat rising interest rates and inflation.

https://fortune.com/2023/04/02/tesla-deliveries-reach-record-level-after-price-reductions-elon-musk-aims-for-2-million/

How altruistic of Tesla.