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January 2022
Citroen reduces prices to meet plug-in grant and removes ICE versions
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2022/01/10/citroen-price-reduction-to-meet-plug-in-grant-and-removes-ice-versions
The French manufacturer says it has made the decision to accelerate the switchover of these models to all-electric powertrains, for the benefit of customers and the environment.March 2023Demand for petrol and diesel vehicles prompts Citroen to ditch EV-only Berlingo sales
Citroen has ditched its all-electric approach to sales of its Berlingo model as a result of “popular demand” for petrol and diesel propelled versions of the MPV.Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)0 -
It's not really surprising when an ICE Berlingo is £21k and an EV one £32k.JKenH said:January 2022Citroen reduces prices to meet plug-in grant and removes ICE versions
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2022/01/10/citroen-price-reduction-to-meet-plug-in-grant-and-removes-ice-versions
The French manufacturer says it has made the decision to accelerate the switchover of these models to all-electric powertrains, for the benefit of customers and the environment.March 2023Demand for petrol and diesel vehicles prompts Citroen to ditch EV-only Berlingo sales
Citroen has ditched its all-electric approach to sales of its Berlingo model as a result of “popular demand” for petrol and diesel propelled versions of the MPV.0 -
Life cycle analysis shows environmental impact of EVs
The huge potential of reducing a vehicle’s impact on the climate by going electric is being diminished by a growing trend towards larger and heavier plug-in cars, new research suggests.LCA results from the 34 tested cars show that battery electric vehicles (BEVs) are ahead in reducing greenhouse gases with 40‑50% less emissions compared to conventional petrol cars, depending on the model chosen.
In terms of primary energy demand, the differences between electric and conventional cars are less.
As an exercise I looked at the Green NCap calculator https://www.greenncap.com/lca-tool/ and selected examples of the two vehicles tested that were the closest to what I have been driving (Nissan Leaf and VW Golf with an annual mileage of 6000 miles) and this was the result. I selected the Green NCap average test results model.
6000 miles favours the petrol car but change to 10,000 mile p.a. and the position swings to a distinct advantage for the EV.
Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)0 -
Why does it take so much more energy to build the EV, excluding the battery?
8kW (4kW WNW, 4kW SSE) 6kW inverter. 6.5kWh battery.0 -
I think I've worked it out.
They've got a flat calculation for the energy use in a car per KG and then scale that for the wright of the vehicle, minus the battery.
That seems to be overly simplistic to me as you'd think an engine would have more energy use than a seat.8kW (4kW WNW, 4kW SSE) 6kW inverter. 6.5kWh battery.2 -
I think there's a bit more to it. They seem to assume a mix of a range of raw materials by vehicle type. EVs have a higher proportion of more energy intensive materials than ICE cars. That is, a higher proportion by weight of aluminium, copper and electronics. ICE cars have more cast iron and steel, which are relatively low energy consumers.ABrass said:I think I've worked it out.
They've got a flat calculation for the energy use in a car per KG and then scale that for the wright of the vehicle, minus the battery.
That seems to be overly simplistic to me as you'd think an engine would have more energy use than a seat.0 -
Balfour Beatty swings behind hydrogen for heavy plant
“All-electric plant isn’t yet a realistic option for our bigger sites, or for heavy plant,” Balfour Beatty group sustainability director Jo Gilroy says. “Just as the range on electric cars isn’t there yet, so the length of time plant can operate flat-out is an issue for the construction sector.”
She continues: “It’s very difficult to make electrification work for big pieces, especially without a mains grid connection – and we need to ensure that there is capacity in the network. The range when they are not plugged in is limited. These larger pieces of electric equipment can also be twice the price of standard plant, and customers are often not prepared to pay the increased hire charges for them. Our view is that, for heavy plant, the priority for the industry has to be to accelerate the energy transition to hydrogen rather than relying on electric to provide the solution.”
However, it is not a simple journey.
“Critically, there is not yet enough green hydrogen being produced,” she notes, “and there remain challenges in terms of the infrastructure for transporting hydrogen around the country. This means that it will be 2025 at the earliest before these become fully viable solutions at any scale.”
Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)0 -
Yes, and also important to consider the source of the energy for the vehicle's use. With ever greener leccy v's FF's. Bio-fuels and e-fuels are unlikely to ever be viable, be it their cost, local emissions, or the larger amount of leccy/land needed to produce them.ABrass said:I think I've worked it out.
They've got a flat calculation for the energy use in a car per KG and then scale that for the wright of the vehicle, minus the battery.
That seems to be overly simplistic to me as you'd think an engine would have more energy use than a seat.
Digression from the OP, but regarding your interest, there was a recent article from Bloomberg, taking an excellent look at the damage to the Amazon from some aluminium mining. But unfortunately a small part took a look at the amount of aluminium in the F-150 pickup body, v's the BEV lightning version, as BEV's are trying to be lighter. They said the BEV used a bit more aluminium when comparing the body and frame. But they excluded the drivetrains, so some small additional amounts are needed for the BEV's motor and batts, but the ICE engine and transmission has large amounts of aluminium too.
Sam Alexander who's Youtube channel looks at misleading news and articles on BEV's reviewed the article.
In short, the article suggested the Lightening used about 682lbs of Al, v's 500lbs for a typical N. American car. Sam compared studies from the same analysts, suggesting the figure is around 700lbs for the BEV and 1,080lbs for a 2015 F-150(ICE) crewcab (two row, like the Lightning).
[Note - I believe he gets his pie-chart colours confused, and applies the block and heads to the wrong %age, but the total real figure for a F-150(ICE) rather than a general car figure for a N. American 'car', shows that the article is more than a little misleading,]Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.1 -
So aside from the already mentioned, why does the EV chassis without the battery take 20% more energy than the ice including the engine, I wonder how they calculate the 'Energy supply' portions as in the first example the EV uses 20% less energy and in the second it uses 33% less so this is obviously not just the energy in the fuel being counted.JKenH said:Life cycle analysis shows environmental impact of EVs
The huge potential of reducing a vehicle’s impact on the climate by going electric is being diminished by a growing trend towards larger and heavier plug-in cars, new research suggests.LCA results from the 34 tested cars show that battery electric vehicles (BEVs) are ahead in reducing greenhouse gases with 40‑50% less emissions compared to conventional petrol cars, depending on the model chosen.
In terms of primary energy demand, the differences between electric and conventional cars are less.
As an exercise I looked at the Green NCap calculator https://www.greenncap.com/lca-tool/ and selected examples of the two vehicles tested that were the closest to what I have been driving (Nissan Leaf and VW Golf with an annual mileage of 6000 miles) and this was the result. I selected the Green NCap average test results model.
6000 miles favours the petrol car but change to 10,000 mile p.a. and the position swings to a distinct advantage for the EV.
This is also a 'total energy' comparison not a total CO2 comparison as the ICE fuel energy can not be renewable. So bit of an odd comparison altogether unless we are assuming that renewable energy is also a problem?I think....1 -
Could it be that a lot of EVs have to share a body & chassis with a hybrid & ICE powertrain variant? Many EVs comparable to the 1800kg Model 3 are quite portly often weighing over 400kg more.michaels said:
So aside from the already mentioned, why does the EV chassis without the battery take 20% more energy than the ice including the engine, I wonder how they calculate the 'Energy supply' portions as in the first example the EV uses 20% less energy and in the second it uses 33% less so this is obviously not just the energy in the fuel being counted.JKenH said:Life cycle analysis shows environmental impact of EVs
The huge potential of reducing a vehicle’s impact on the climate by going electric is being diminished by a growing trend towards larger and heavier plug-in cars, new research suggests.LCA results from the 34 tested cars show that battery electric vehicles (BEVs) are ahead in reducing greenhouse gases with 40‑50% less emissions compared to conventional petrol cars, depending on the model chosen.
In terms of primary energy demand, the differences between electric and conventional cars are less.
As an exercise I looked at the Green NCap calculator https://www.greenncap.com/lca-tool/ and selected examples of the two vehicles tested that were the closest to what I have been driving (Nissan Leaf and VW Golf with an annual mileage of 6000 miles) and this was the result. I selected the Green NCap average test results model.
6000 miles favours the petrol car but change to 10,000 mile p.a. and the position swings to a distinct advantage for the EV.
This is also a 'total energy' comparison not a total CO2 comparison as the ICE fuel energy can not be renewable. So bit of an odd comparison altogether unless we are assuming that renewable energy is also a problem?4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North LincsInstalled June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh0
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