EV Discussion thread

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

Thanks for that insight. you learn something new every day. I’d never come across NPS before. 

I’d probably go 7 on the finger nails. Great for a scratch and removing paint but I can’t help thinking it would hurt less without them when I hit my finger with a hammer. I am usually sporting one black nail. 

NPS is Net Promoter Score where 1 - 6 is detractor / negative, 7 - 8 is passive / neutral, 9 - 10 is promoter / positive / passion.

It does very much rely on experience against expectation.  When I was first introduced to the method (late 1980's), the buzz then was about Skoda out performing Rolls Royce and it was all down to the Skoda purchaser (of that time) having low expectations of the product whereas the Rolls Royce purchaser (then and now) was very demanding and very exacting.

One of the things about NPS is that you need to keep improving and innovating to maintain a high score as your "excellence / above expectation" will become the norm amongst your customers so just doing the same thing again will see the score slip from the "passion" space to the "passive" space.  That experience has to be continually enhanced without driving responders to negative space through affordability... 

That crossed with my edit. Your comment about “passion” and “passive” perfectly describes my analogy. 

Edit: it does explain why Tesla receives such high satisfaction scores from owners, as, they certainly are innovating. 

In the first 18 months of Leaf ownership I was passionate about EVs and people who had suffered my banging on about how great they were, were very surprised that I went back to ICE. 

1961Nick

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

Actually this survey mirrors my own experience - The range of the Tesla met my expectations whereas I was disappointed with the range of our Evoque.

The Evoque obviously goes further than the Tesla on a tank but this is a measurement of 'satisfaction with range' rather than 'absolute range'.

No doubt you will be ditching the Evoke then in favour of a second EV. 

I keep it just to remind me what a chore it is filling up with diesel.

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

Actually this survey mirrors my own experience - The range of the Tesla met my expectations whereas I was disappointed with the range of our Evoque.

The Evoque obviously goes further than the Tesla on a tank but this is a measurement of 'satisfaction with range' rather than 'absolute range'.

No doubt you will be ditching the Evoke then in favour of a second EV. 

I keep it just to remind me what a chore it is filling up with diesel.

Damn that was funny. 

For those who can rely on the 'main' BEV, be it longer range, or Tesla with supercharging, or just smaller journeys, a BEV to displace 2nd car (if you have one) is great. Not sure what the ideal range for a second BEV is, but for us, the IONIQ with 130-150 is more than enough, so perhaps 100 miles would do, which most now would manage, other than the earliest Leaf's, but even then, a great 2nd car if that suits needs, as I suspect it would for us.

michaels

Martyn1981 said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

Actually this survey mirrors my own experience - The range of the Tesla met my expectations whereas I was disappointed with the range of our Evoque.

The Evoque obviously goes further than the Tesla on a tank but this is a measurement of 'satisfaction with range' rather than 'absolute range'.

No doubt you will be ditching the Evoke then in favour of a second EV. 

I keep it just to remind me what a chore it is filling up with diesel.

Damn that was funny. 

For those who can rely on the 'main' BEV, be it longer range, or Tesla with supercharging, or just smaller journeys, a BEV to displace 2nd car (if you have one) is great. Not sure what the ideal range for a second BEV is, but for us, the IONIQ with 130-150 is more than enough, so perhaps 100 miles would do, which most now would manage, other than the earliest Leaf's, but even then, a great 2nd car if that suits needs, as I suspect it would for us.

Depends on your journeys - our 'second car' leaf was a 24 that we found could do 90% of our journeys without charging away from home.  It has lost about 10-15 miles of range since new, which is starting to require careful driving in the cold and wet on some trips.  Our new EV is a leaf 40 which in theory can do 160 but much less in the cold and wet but its 110 mile reliable min picks up a lot of the 10% of journeys we couldn't do before (Cambridge Open day for DD2 tomorrow, we have done it in the 24 but had to stop for a free charge at the Nissan stealer will be no charge stop trip i the 40).  Next challenge will be 220 miles to my parents in Devon, I think 1 stop would be possible but looking at the charge curve 2 short stops may make for the quickest overall journey.

[Aside with the V2H charger at home we have an unused 'backup' podpoint AC charger on the wall, half thinking of taking it with us and jerry rigging it so we can charge faster than granny when we are there]

Grumpy_chap

In the past, others have commented on vibration within an ICE.  I never fully appreciated the position. 
Ever since test driving the MG a couple of weeks back, I have noticed the vibration of my wife's Fiesta when on tickover idle.  Quite noticeable when a passenger, though I can't say I noticed it when driving (perhaps because concentrating on the task).
Anyway, it's a real thing but I just never noticed before.

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

In the past, others have commented on vibration within an ICE.  I never fully appreciated the position. 
Ever since test driving the MG a couple of weeks back, I have noticed the vibration of my wife's Fiesta when on tickover idle.  Quite noticeable when a passenger, though I can't say I noticed it when driving (perhaps because concentrating on the task).
Anyway, it's a real thing but I just never noticed before.

That's one of the funny questions/ponders that I've had. If you think about what's classed as 'luxury', then at least a couple of points apply to BEV's simply by default. One being the NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) which luxury cars spend a lot of money minimising. This can mean larger engines, more cylinders, more sound proofing etc etc. And also the confident driving (such as joining roundabouts, T-Junctions etc), where the instant torque of a BEV, makes up for the large power of 'luxury' cars.

I'm not trying to argue that all BEV's are luxury cars, but I'm starting to wonder if an ICEV can truly be luxury these days.

Of course, the other side of it is that BEV's need loads of clever engineering to minimse wind and tyre noise as it can no longer be hidden behind the engine drone. It's 'spottable' on the Leaf's and Tesla's, where they use the headlight shape to help direct airflow.

Only a silly thought, and apologies, yet again for waffling, but I have also pondered how tiring it might be (I'm not sure) to drive something like a transit van for long periods, given the NVH. I wonder if a BEV van might leave drivers less tired at the end of the day?

Are coming over to the 'dark' side? Getting any closer to settling on a BEV, or still enjoying the choice, whilst you work out what's the best BEV for you?

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

In the past, others have commented on vibration within an ICE.  I never fully appreciated the position. 
Ever since test driving the MG a couple of weeks back, I have noticed the vibration of my wife's Fiesta when on tickover idle.  Quite noticeable when a passenger, though I can't say I noticed it when driving (perhaps because concentrating on the task).
Anyway, it's a real thing but I just never noticed before.

I suspect some people find comfort in the vibration on tick over given the number of diesel vans I see parked with the diesel engine running and the driver reading the Sun. 

1961Nick

I had a 2017 Model S P100D for a few days last week & even my wife noticed how much noisier it was than our Model 3. I hadn't really appreciated until then what a good job Tesla had done with NVH in the M3 & how easily other noises could infect a BEV.

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

I had a 2017 Model S P100D for a few days last week & even my wife noticed how much noisier it was than our Model 3. I hadn't really appreciated until then what a good job Tesla had done with NVH in the M3 & how easily other noises could infect a BEV.

Might have my dates confused, but your TM3 may be prior to Tesla adding double laminated glass to the front windows, so even better now, not that it was an issue for us with the TM3 which had single glass, tbh.

JKenH

JKenH said:

Edit 3: I have also noticed that Tesla are offering discounts on what appear to be new cars (rather than demo cars). 

£1260 on the M3 https://tesla-info.com/inventory/UK/
£1450 - £1840 on the MY https://tesla-info.com/inventory/UK/
Edit 5: from Tesla’s website

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/inventory/new/m3

Tesla has now increased discounts on new inventory cars to £2,520 for the M3 SR and £2,640 for the MY SR. This brings the price of an M3 down to £40,740. 

https://tesla-info.com/inventory/UK/

The discounts on LR models start at £3,000 and £3,120. 

Edit: similar discounts are available across Europe but not in the U.S.