Free Cavity Wall wont do without controls

Petriix

BUFF said:

Petriix said:

Smart TRVs offer enormous savings for most conventionally heated homes in comparison to just running a single thermostat. It means that you can programmatically turn off the heat to any rooms not in use and only heat them when required.

Most bedrooms only really need a small burst of heat in the morning just before you get up and a just before bed; or, if you're working from home, just heating the room you work in for the majority of the day and maybe a quick blast in the kitchen in advance of lunch. If you have a wood burner then a smart TRV would know that the room was already hot enough and no heating would be demanded.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, I suspect, particularly where existing conventional TRVs are already in use. Of course, it's all reliant on people actually using any controls on hand properly (which many don't).
University of Salford/BEAMA research reckoned that the energy saving for regular TRVs over manual valves was 18%, so I think that it's fair to say that the gain from moving from regular TRVs to "smart" TRVs will be considerably less than that.
https://www.beama.org.uk/static/uploaded/a5d0902f-aef3-4794-9bab50bf9cf97b20.pdf

I don't follow your logic here. Regular TRVs serve an almost entirely different purpose to smart TRVs with the former offering only the ability to set specific temperatures in different rooms while the latter allows adjustment of the temperature according to a schedule.

Unless you're running round the house adjusting the regular TRVs multiple times per day then I don't see how they can come close to the same savings as smart TRVs. With regular TRVs you're dependent on the main thermostat calling for heat, which means having the radiators in the room with the thermostat permanently on. With Smart TRVs, you can have the main thermostat effectively off and allow the room TRVs to demand heat only when that specific space needs heating. With some thought you can significantly reduce the volume of air you're heating while maintaining comfort.

Robin9

I've got a (Mk1) Nest equivalent to the Hive and I've never used the app - it has a good built in programmer.   Never been very convinced by its intelligence to learn your lifestyle.

[Deleted User]

Petriix said:

BUFF said:

Petriix said:

Smart TRVs offer enormous savings for most conventionally heated homes in comparison to just running a single thermostat. It means that you can programmatically turn off the heat to any rooms not in use and only heat them when required.

Most bedrooms only really need a small burst of heat in the morning just before you get up and a just before bed; or, if you're working from home, just heating the room you work in for the majority of the day and maybe a quick blast in the kitchen in advance of lunch. If you have a wood burner then a smart TRV would know that the room was already hot enough and no heating would be demanded.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, I suspect, particularly where existing conventional TRVs are already in use. Of course, it's all reliant on people actually using any controls on hand properly (which many don't).
University of Salford/BEAMA research reckoned that the energy saving for regular TRVs over manual valves was 18%, so I think that it's fair to say that the gain from moving from regular TRVs to "smart" TRVs will be considerably less than that.
https://www.beama.org.uk/static/uploaded/a5d0902f-aef3-4794-9bab50bf9cf97b20.pdf

I don't follow your logic here. Regular TRVs serve an almost entirely different purpose to smart TRVs with the former offering only the ability to set specific temperatures in different rooms while the latter allows adjustment of the temperature according to a schedule.

Unless you're running round the house adjusting the regular TRVs multiple times per day then I don't see how they can come close to the same savings as smart TRVs. With regular TRVs you're dependent on the main thermostat calling for heat, which means having the radiators in the room with the thermostat permanently on. With Smart TRVs, you can have the main thermostat effectively off and allow the room TRVs to demand heat only when that specific space needs heating. With some thought you can significantly reduce the volume of air you're heating while maintaining comfort.

Having had an EPC carried out on my previous home a couple of years ago, people shouldn’t believe all the smart controls hype. I had a full Evohome smart control system installed complete with 18 ETRVs. In truth, the savings in a well-insulated home were minimal. The concept of turning off heating in used rooms is flawed as the rooms just become cold and damp.

Most smart heating controls (and, in particular, their advertised savings, are via self certification). An EPC will only take smart heating controls into account in situations where the controls have been made available to the BRE for testing. Very few manufacturers offer up their smart controls to the BRE.

For EPC purposes, an Evohome system is treated as a home with two heating zones: this equates to a 2% saving over a single zoned home.

BUFF

Petriix said:

BUFF said:

Petriix said:

Smart TRVs offer enormous savings for most conventionally heated homes in comparison to just running a single thermostat. It means that you can programmatically turn off the heat to any rooms not in use and only heat them when required.

Most bedrooms only really need a small burst of heat in the morning just before you get up and a just before bed; or, if you're working from home, just heating the room you work in for the majority of the day and maybe a quick blast in the kitchen in advance of lunch. If you have a wood burner then a smart TRV would know that the room was already hot enough and no heating would be demanded.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, I suspect, particularly where existing conventional TRVs are already in use. Of course, it's all reliant on people actually using any controls on hand properly (which many don't).
University of Salford/BEAMA research reckoned that the energy saving for regular TRVs over manual valves was 18%, so I think that it's fair to say that the gain from moving from regular TRVs to "smart" TRVs will be considerably less than that.
https://www.beama.org.uk/static/uploaded/a5d0902f-aef3-4794-9bab50bf9cf97b20.pdf

I don't follow your logic here. Regular TRVs serve an almost entirely different purpose to smart TRVs with the former offering only the ability to set specific temperatures in different rooms while the latter allows adjustment of the temperature according to a schedule.

Unless you're running round the house adjusting the regular TRVs multiple times per day then I don't see how they can come close to the same savings as smart TRVs. With regular TRVs you're dependent on the main thermostat calling for heat, which means having the radiators in the room with the thermostat permanently on. With Smart TRVs, you can have the main thermostat effectively off and allow the room TRVs to demand heat only when that specific space needs heating. With some thought you can significantly reduce the volume of air you're heating while maintaining comfort.

You will have a programmer as well (the European standard & Part L call for it & e.g. a Hive includes it). I do agree with your statement "With some thought you can significantly reduce the volume of air you're heating while maintaining comfort." & it's definitely doable under my scheme if you know your house & heating system (assuming that it was properly designed/installed in the first place). In my case the system runs in the morning & runs in the evening &  is set so that the main used room has the highest temp. (I know the offset from where my roomstat is to achieve that required temp.  in that room). All other rooms have TRVs set lower so shut off before the most used room hits temp./the roomstat shuts the whole system off. 
 It's possible that your scheme may well result in increased saving  but I would suggest minimal (a couple of % maybe, certainly not "enormous") & as smart TRVs are typically ~£50 each & the average house probably needs ~6 that will take a fair while to recover costs.

There is always the caveat that everyone's requirements/situation is going to be different so what suits/works for one person may not for another - there are different ways to skin the same cat.