Free Cavity Wall wont do without controls

wild666

If the control can be set to zero so that one or more radiators can be off accept the thing and set the thing to off after they have finished the work. 

k_man

Ultrasonic said:

k_man said:

Ultrasonic said:

matelodave said:

Why are we discussing how the OP's heating might or might not work - the essence of the thread as I understanding it s that they being offered summat that they don't want for NOTHING (as in the new controls) as a condition on getting something that they do want which is also being offered for NOTHING(ie the insulation)

Forgive me if I've misunderstood and they have to pay for the the controls as condition of getting free insulation but if the whole lot is free then I really cant understand the whinging - they don't have to use them if they don't want to.

If the OP doesn't have a smartphone and isn't prepared to buy one, then by the sound of it the reasonable concern could be they'd end up with a heating system that they couldn't use properly.

While are making a lot of assumptions about what is being offered, and it depends on the specific system, but many, including Hive, can be controlled, and programmed locally.

https://community.hivehome.com/s/article/How-do-I-set-up-view-or-edit-my-heating-schedule-using-my-Hive-Active-Heating-2-thermostat

That said, for Hive, it is easier using the app, or the just the website which the OP has access to.

Please note I said 'could' and was being guided by a post above. I wasn't making assumptions.

Sorry that wasn't aimed at you specifically
I missed a collective we... (While we are making...)

Ultrasonic said:

pochase said:

Ultrasonic said:

k_man said:

Ultrasonic said:

matelodave said:

Why are we discussing how the OP's heating might or might not work - the essence of the thread as I understanding it s that they being offered summat that they don't want for NOTHING (as in the new controls) as a condition on getting something that they do want which is also being offered for NOTHING(ie the insulation)

Forgive me if I've misunderstood and they have to pay for the the controls as condition of getting free insulation but if the whole lot is free then I really cant understand the whinging - they don't have to use them if they don't want to.

If the OP doesn't have a smartphone and isn't prepared to buy one, then by the sound of it the reasonable concern could be they'd end up with a heating system that they couldn't use properly.

While are making a lot of assumptions about what is being offered, and it depends on the specific system, but many, including Hive, can be controlled, and programmed locally.

https://community.hivehome.com/s/article/How-do-I-set-up-view-or-edit-my-heating-schedule-using-my-Hive-Active-Heating-2-thermostat

That said, for Hive, it is easier using the app, or the just the website which the OP has access to.

Please note I said 'could' and was being guided by a post above. I wasn't making assumptions.

Seems there are different versions of the thermostat now, this one does not allow programming of the schedule but others do.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/mijf9lz5yt3u/5CrVkZ7sTTg7D5LlRV4QG6/413e6f13a39b867327bd8d46f27f4407/Hive_Thermostat_Mini_SLT6_-_User_Guide.pdf

But even for this one the schedule(s) can be programmed by the installer and than activated by the use rwithout the app.

The latter option wouldn't be one I'd be happy with personally. My natural reaction at the start of the thread was very much to stop complaining about something being given for free but I can actually there may be an issue for the OP here. Noting of course that they must be extremely unusual in being in work but not having a smartphone. Were this scheme aimed at the elderly it would be potentially more problematic.

 If the mini is anything like the normal Thermostat, then programming is via the app or website, which would make anyone without access double extremely unusual (especially someone that posts here).

@ellajuk
Is this more a matter of principal, rather than having different controls installed actually causing you a problem?

Xbigman

ellajuk said:

Xbigman said:

All government and council schemes work this way. To administer a lot of individual components is expensive so they decide what would benefit the most people and that is what everyone gets. Whilst its annoying to have stuff installed that's useless for an individual it is overall a good thing. 
OP, why not have it all installed and then rip out the hive components and sell them on ebay? 


Darren

I was thinking of that option, if it could be done.  Thanks to the british taxpayer being ripped off again.

No one is being ripped off. As I explained, these schemes are done to suit the majority. There are plenty who fall outside that metric and leaving a Hive system installed and unused seems a waste when some one else might well buy it second hand and use it whilst both parties gain a few £'s.

QrizB said:

ellajuk said:

Thanks to the british taxpayer being ripped off again.

If this is ECO4 (and it sounds like it) then it's funded by one part of the Policy Costs that make up everyone's energy bills.

I don't have a problem paying a bit of standing charge for the needy to have insulation, but a Hive is just too far. I'm not surprised though. My EPC has comments about my having no visible boiler controls (the on/off button doesn't count) so this sort of thing is seen as essential by the powers that be. Hence you get it, needed or not.


Darren

BUFF

Xbigman said:

I don't have a problem paying a bit of standing charge for the needy to have insulation, but a Hive is just too far. I'm not surprised though. My EPC has comments about my having no visible boiler controls (the on/off button doesn't count) so this sort of thing is seen as essential by the powers that be. Hence you get it, needed or not.

A Hive Mini roomstat is actually quite cheap (~£60 & I would think in bulk under a scheme even cheaper), certainly a lot cheaper than CWI & a reasonable basic level of control for this day & age. I wouldn't begrudge that.
 However, if it was also fitting Hive "smart" TRVs (as has been suggested by 1 person) throughout where TRVs (albeit not "smart") are fitted already I would.

ellajuk

Ultrasonic said:

pochase said:

Ultrasonic said:

k_man said:

Ultrasonic said:

matelodave said:

Why are we discussing how the OP's heating might or might not work - the essence of the thread as I understanding it s that they being offered summat that they don't want for NOTHING (as in the new controls) as a condition on getting something that they do want which is also being offered for NOTHING(ie the insulation)

Forgive me if I've misunderstood and they have to pay for the the controls as condition of getting free insulation but if the whole lot is free then I really cant understand the whinging - they don't have to use them if they don't want to.

If the OP doesn't have a smartphone and isn't prepared to buy one, then by the sound of it the reasonable concern could be they'd end up with a heating system that they couldn't use properly.

While are making a lot of assumptions about what is being offered, and it depends on the specific system, but many, including Hive, can be controlled, and programmed locally.

https://community.hivehome.com/s/article/How-do-I-set-up-view-or-edit-my-heating-schedule-using-my-Hive-Active-Heating-2-thermostat

That said, for Hive, it is easier using the app, or the just the website which the OP has access to.

Please note I said 'could' and was being guided by a post above. I wasn't making assumptions.

Seems there are different versions of the thermostat now, this one does not allow programming of the schedule but others do.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/mijf9lz5yt3u/5CrVkZ7sTTg7D5LlRV4QG6/413e6f13a39b867327bd8d46f27f4407/Hive_Thermostat_Mini_SLT6_-_User_Guide.pdf

But even for this one the schedule(s) can be programmed by the installer and than activated by the use rwithout the app.

The latter option wouldn't be one I'd be happy with personally. My natural reaction at the start of the thread was very much to stop complaining about something being given for free but I can actually there may be an issue for the OP here. Noting of course that they must be extremely unusual in being in work but not having a smartphone. Were this scheme aimed at the elderly it would be potentially more problematic.

I work from home.

ellajuk

ioealshk said:

ellajuk said:

It is such a shame that there is a catch with these freebies.

I found these companies to be completely useless. I no longer bother contacting them or even thinking that this is something that I might want to do in the future. I had 4 or 5 companies come out to survey my house, they all talk the talk: "Oh yes, will install central gas heating no problem, fella", and later they all say "Oooh, actually we need to increase your loft insulation", even thought I clearly asked them whether the loft insulation is a prerequisite for the gas heating, and they said no.

All of these companies want to use the cheapest rockwool (probably the only think they are qualified to lay), and wouldn't agree to install the wool insulation even when I offered to pay for the difference in price. They also think it's okay to just throw the rockwool on my loft floor, rendering the space unusable.

Contractors are in it only for the money, nobody cares about reducing the energy usage and the environmental impact as they claim - and if they do, then definitely not in my area.

If you check the ECO guidance etc it does not mention the compulsory use of rockwool, it's just the companies go for the cheapest option that requires the least knowledge and thus will result in higher profit margins for them. I imagine it applies all across the board, including the installation of the parts of the system e.g. thermostats and the like that you don't need so that they can get paid for installing them. They don't care if your house wastes massive amount of energy, because they can sell their system to the next eligible person.

As you say, there's always a catch. I too would hate if I was forced to have work done that isn't needed.

Spot on.  Exactly the point I am trying to make.  

Petriix

Smart TRVs offer enormous savings for most conventionally heated homes in comparison to just running a single thermostat. It means that you can programmatically turn off the heat to any rooms not in use and only heat them when required.

Most bedrooms only really need a small burst of heat in the morning just before you get up and a just before bed; or, if you're working from home, just heating the room you work in for the majority of the day and maybe a quick blast in the kitchen in advance of lunch. If you have a wood burner then a smart TRV would know that the room was already hot enough and no heating would be demanded.

The suggestion that a smart heating control system could somehow cost you money by unnecessarily running the pump is somewhat ludicrous. The worst case is that you genuinely don't run the central heating at all and therefore save nothing. You also lose nothing, but gain a valuable asset. In all likelihood you'd get at least a small benefit.

I'd understand the reluctance if it was costing you something. As it's free, I don't see the complaint at all. You could remove it all and sell it on, replacing it with conventional controls instead. Or even gift the system to someone else who could make better use of it. I could easily save £100 from my heating bill - not enough to justify spending £400 on fitting smart TRVs, but plenty enough if fitted for free.

rjmachin

BUFF said:

A Hive Mini roomstat is actually quite cheap (~£60 & I would think in bulk under a scheme even cheaper), certainly a lot cheaper than CWI & a reasonable basic level of control for this day & age. 

If you don't already have the hive hub, one is also needed to enable remote control of the heating.  That takes it up to £120

BUFF

Petriix said:

Smart TRVs offer enormous savings for most conventionally heated homes in comparison to just running a single thermostat. It means that you can programmatically turn off the heat to any rooms not in use and only heat them when required.

Most bedrooms only really need a small burst of heat in the morning just before you get up and a just before bed; or, if you're working from home, just heating the room you work in for the majority of the day and maybe a quick blast in the kitchen in advance of lunch. If you have a wood burner then a smart TRV would know that the room was already hot enough and no heating would be demanded.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, I suspect, particularly where existing conventional TRVs are already in use. Of course, it's all reliant on people actually using any controls on hand properly (which many don't).
University of Salford/BEAMA research reckoned that the energy saving for regular TRVs over manual valves was 18%, so I think that it's fair to say that the gain from moving from regular TRVs to "smart" TRVs will be considerably less than that.
https://www.beama.org.uk/static/uploaded/a5d0902f-aef3-4794-9bab50bf9cf97b20.pdf

rjmachin said:

BUFF said:

A Hive Mini roomstat is actually quite cheap (~£60 & I would think in bulk under a scheme even cheaper), certainly a lot cheaper than CWI & a reasonable basic level of control for this day & age. 

If you don't already have the hive hub, one is also needed to enable remote control of the heating.  That takes it up to £120

Yes, but it will work manually/to set schedule without a hub. I don't consider remote control to be a basic requirement plus the OP has already said that he works from home.

Ultrasonic

ellajuk said:

Ultrasonic said:

pochase said:

Ultrasonic said:

k_man said:

Ultrasonic said:

matelodave said:

Why are we discussing how the OP's heating might or might not work - the essence of the thread as I understanding it s that they being offered summat that they don't want for NOTHING (as in the new controls) as a condition on getting something that they do want which is also being offered for NOTHING(ie the insulation)

Forgive me if I've misunderstood and they have to pay for the the controls as condition of getting free insulation but if the whole lot is free then I really cant understand the whinging - they don't have to use them if they don't want to.

If the OP doesn't have a smartphone and isn't prepared to buy one, then by the sound of it the reasonable concern could be they'd end up with a heating system that they couldn't use properly.

While are making a lot of assumptions about what is being offered, and it depends on the specific system, but many, including Hive, can be controlled, and programmed locally.

https://community.hivehome.com/s/article/How-do-I-set-up-view-or-edit-my-heating-schedule-using-my-Hive-Active-Heating-2-thermostat

That said, for Hive, it is easier using the app, or the just the website which the OP has access to.

Please note I said 'could' and was being guided by a post above. I wasn't making assumptions.

Seems there are different versions of the thermostat now, this one does not allow programming of the schedule but others do.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/mijf9lz5yt3u/5CrVkZ7sTTg7D5LlRV4QG6/413e6f13a39b867327bd8d46f27f4407/Hive_Thermostat_Mini_SLT6_-_User_Guide.pdf

But even for this one the schedule(s) can be programmed by the installer and than activated by the use rwithout the app.

The latter option wouldn't be one I'd be happy with personally. My natural reaction at the start of the thread was very much to stop complaining about something being given for free but I can actually there may be an issue for the OP here. Noting of course that they must be extremely unusual in being in work but not having a smartphone. Were this scheme aimed at the elderly it would be potentially more problematic.

I work from home.

Where you work wasn't actually relevant to my thinking there.