EV range

MouldyOldDough

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

DB1904 said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MacPingu1986 said:

MouldyOldDough said:

How about traffic jams?
I am aware that an IC car needs fuel but I can imagine the stress of sitting in stationary traffic watching your range drop from using accessories /aircon
Not knowing whether you will be able to recharge at the next stop
For IC cars it's a simple quick refill but not EV's

This has all been covered in depth on the other thread.

Absolute range and refuelling speed is only one factor in car choice. The average UK driver only carries out 2 journeys over 100 miles per year (and on average only one journey over 200 miles every 5 years!). The vast, vast majority of driving consists of short range, simple, routine, repeatable trips where concerns about range and refuelling speed isn't a problem and the various other benefits of EVs more than offset the additional planning required for the very occasional longer journey.

If you're one of the small % of drivers who regularly drives long distances then you'll balance range as more of a priority against other factors. For everyone else, it's just one rather small, often irrelevant, factor.

I drive a 150mile journey every 2 months stay over night and return the next day
The relatives that I stay with have no charging facilities and I would not want ask them if I can use a 13 amp socket
What would you do?
Plus there is my Dad who lives in a house with no drive or ability to run a cable to his car
How would he charge at home? 

Is he still driving long distances at 90?

Surprisingly yes he is - he regularly drives some 300 miles to see relatives
But in any case - there must be millions like him that physically are unable to charge at home 

Despite having essentially refuted this at least 5 times, let's try again.

There's about 6.6 million houses (about 25%) without off-street parking.

However there are also about 6.6 million houses that don't have a car. Now there's not a 1:1 relation to those, as plenty of people without off street parking have cars, and plenty of people with off street parking that don't have cars.
If we assume car ownership and off street parking are based loosely on income, we can assume that the majority of those who don't have a car also don't have parking, no?
But even is we assume generously that half of the houses without parking do have cars, we're at about 3.3 million, so your point is technically correct, but still completely irrelevant.

Of those people, most will presumably do an average mileage of about 150/week, which is about the range of an average EV available new now.
The majority of those people with a car will take it somewhere other than someone elses' house (which might have charging), that have or are near public car parks, and so there's a high likelihood that their destination will have charging facilities.

The very few people who can't charge their car at home and can't charge it at any of their destinations will need to go and visit a dedicated charging facility when needed, but given they don't seem to take the car anywhere it's safe to assume they don't need to do that very often. Heck, for low enough mileage they can probably trickle charge the thing.

Of course, right now there isn't enough infastructure for everyone to charge everywhere yet, but 10 years ago there was essentially none and we're still at least 20 years away from everyone driving an EV, so I'm pretty confident the infrastructure will be fine. Capitalism pretty much guarantees it.

Assumptions and Guesses !

Yup, that's why I use words like "assume". Do you want to try and refute any of it? Can you see any bad assumptions there or able to provide anything that proves me wrong?

Such as the fact that the UK is already running on empty by way of electrical power and with a few milliion EVs trying to charge - WHERE IS THE POWER COMING FROM ?

Unless we have rolling blackouts to allow people to charge their vehicles - I see no way forwards - don't forget that in a few years people are going to have to heat their homes with electricity as well - mains gas is being phased out for heating.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

the headline starts

"Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily"

Why do you keep regurgitating such easily disproved nonsense? Did you do even the briefest internet search?

100 (spare) Terra Watts available for how many homes ?

Thats only 100,000 Mw - Which, when split between 30,000,000 homes is just 3.3Kw of spare power per home - hardly enough to heat a home (with no gas available) let alone charge your EV

Grumpy_chap

Herzlos said:

There are about 24 million homes. There are no figures on how many already have EV charge points or can easily have them.

So, the statement by a previous poster "people without access to home charging. They are a large minority with a significant disadvantage" is without foundation and it cannot be verified that the people without access to home charging are a minority?

We are taking access to include current EV charge point or easy provision to add a charge point.  It is more complex than simply having electricity to the property plus off-street parking.

Jenni_D

MouldyOldDough said:

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

DB1904 said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MacPingu1986 said:

MouldyOldDough said:

How about traffic jams?
I am aware that an IC car needs fuel but I can imagine the stress of sitting in stationary traffic watching your range drop from using accessories /aircon
Not knowing whether you will be able to recharge at the next stop
For IC cars it's a simple quick refill but not EV's

This has all been covered in depth on the other thread.

Absolute range and refuelling speed is only one factor in car choice. The average UK driver only carries out 2 journeys over 100 miles per year (and on average only one journey over 200 miles every 5 years!). The vast, vast majority of driving consists of short range, simple, routine, repeatable trips where concerns about range and refuelling speed isn't a problem and the various other benefits of EVs more than offset the additional planning required for the very occasional longer journey.

If you're one of the small % of drivers who regularly drives long distances then you'll balance range as more of a priority against other factors. For everyone else, it's just one rather small, often irrelevant, factor.

I drive a 150mile journey every 2 months stay over night and return the next day
The relatives that I stay with have no charging facilities and I would not want ask them if I can use a 13 amp socket
What would you do?
Plus there is my Dad who lives in a house with no drive or ability to run a cable to his car
How would he charge at home? 

Is he still driving long distances at 90?

Surprisingly yes he is - he regularly drives some 300 miles to see relatives
But in any case - there must be millions like him that physically are unable to charge at home 

Despite having essentially refuted this at least 5 times, let's try again.

There's about 6.6 million houses (about 25%) without off-street parking.

However there are also about 6.6 million houses that don't have a car. Now there's not a 1:1 relation to those, as plenty of people without off street parking have cars, and plenty of people with off street parking that don't have cars.
If we assume car ownership and off street parking are based loosely on income, we can assume that the majority of those who don't have a car also don't have parking, no?
But even is we assume generously that half of the houses without parking do have cars, we're at about 3.3 million, so your point is technically correct, but still completely irrelevant.

Of those people, most will presumably do an average mileage of about 150/week, which is about the range of an average EV available new now.
The majority of those people with a car will take it somewhere other than someone elses' house (which might have charging), that have or are near public car parks, and so there's a high likelihood that their destination will have charging facilities.

The very few people who can't charge their car at home and can't charge it at any of their destinations will need to go and visit a dedicated charging facility when needed, but given they don't seem to take the car anywhere it's safe to assume they don't need to do that very often. Heck, for low enough mileage they can probably trickle charge the thing.

Of course, right now there isn't enough infastructure for everyone to charge everywhere yet, but 10 years ago there was essentially none and we're still at least 20 years away from everyone driving an EV, so I'm pretty confident the infrastructure will be fine. Capitalism pretty much guarantees it.

Assumptions and Guesses !

Yup, that's why I use words like "assume". Do you want to try and refute any of it? Can you see any bad assumptions there or able to provide anything that proves me wrong?

Such as the fact that the UK is already running on empty by way of electrical power and with a few milliion EVs trying to charge - WHERE IS THE POWER COMING FROM ?

Unless we have rolling blackouts to allow people to charge their vehicles - I see no way forwards - don't forget that in a few years people are going to have to heat their homes with electricity as well - mains gas is being phased out for heating.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

the headline starts

"Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily"

Why do you keep regurgitating such easily disproved nonsense? Did you do even the briefest internet search?

100 (spare) Terra Watts available for how many homes ?

Thats only 100,000 Mw - Which, when split between 30,000,000 homes is just 3.3Kw of spare power per home - hardly enough to heat a home (with no gas available) let alone charge your EV

Oh dear! 🙄
1,000 MW is a Gigawatt (GW)
1,000 GW is a Terawatt (TW)

So 100 TW is 100,000 GW, or 100,000,000 MW. So the spare capacity is 3.3 MW per home (using your assumed 30m homes, which differs from the 24m homes mentioned by others).

MacPingu1986

MOD - What exactly is the point you're trying to make here? Your argument appears to be that because of the specific situation of your father and his very a-typical driving patterns - that EVs shouldn't be adopted.

But that's not the case, as various other posters have repeatedly explained at length - for the vast majority of car owners these are either not problems at all, or problems that can be easily solved and are small in comparison to the wider benefits of EV ownership.

Home charging makes EV's particularly convenient, but even if home-charging is impossible there are workarounds which most people will be able to utilise in one way or another - charging at work, charging during weekly grocery shop, charging during any other type of trip whilst you run an errand, have a coffee etc... 

For the vast majority of homes with off-street parking, it's not difficult to add charging capacity - chargers are a simple technology, some installations will be more complex than others sure, they'll be the odd parking space some distance from a mains link etc... - but for the most part its easy and straightforward (and will only get more-so with wider adoption)

Herzlos

Plus not everyone will need to charge at 2kw all day every day. Average driving usage will only need about 4kwh to top up - that's 2 hours each.

[Deleted User]

I don’t like keeping the Trolls fed but I’ll answer the question again. 

For your 90 year old father or whoever lives in a concrete Forrest with no leccy or parking space can simply use a public rapid charger once a week. 

There will be plenty available just like petrol stations now. 

It’s simple really isn’t it?

MouldyOldDough

Deleted_User said:

I don’t like keeping the Trolls fed but I’ll answer the question again. 

For your 90 year old father or whoever lives in a concrete Forrest with no leccy or parking space can simply use a public rapid charger once a week. 

There will be plenty available just like petrol stations now. 

It’s simple really isn’t it?

So. You're accusing me of being a troll - really? 
My father does have a garage but no electricity anywhere near the garage
The local petrol station has no charge points and due to lack of space probably never will 

Car_54

Deleted_User said:

I don’t like keeping the Trolls fed but I’ll answer the question again. 

For your 90 year old father or whoever lives in a concrete Forrest with no leccy or parking space can simply use a public rapid charger once a week. 

There will be plenty available just like petrol stations now. 

It’s simple really isn’t it?

By which time the 90-year-old will be 100 ...

Herzlos

Car_54 said:

Deleted_User said:

I don’t like keeping the Trolls fed but I’ll answer the question again. 

For your 90 year old father or whoever lives in a concrete Forrest with no leccy or parking space can simply use a public rapid charger once a week. 

There will be plenty available just like petrol stations now. 

It’s simple really isn’t it?

By which time the 90-year-old will be 100 ...

And he's going to be at least 110 before he won't be able to get a diesel car, so it's a completely moot point.

Herzlos

MouldyOldDough said:

Deleted_User said:

I don’t like keeping the Trolls fed but I’ll answer the question again. 

For your 90 year old father or whoever lives in a concrete Forrest with no leccy or parking space can simply use a public rapid charger once a week. 

There will be plenty available just like petrol stations now. 

It’s simple really isn’t it?

So. You're accusing me of being a troll - really?

If the shoe fits.

Look at from everyone elses' perspective; the points you keep bringing up have already been debunked many many times, you don't seem to be engaging with the discussion and seem to bounce between acknowledged extreme cases and already debunked claims.