EV range

Petriix

shinytop said:

Petriix said:

shinytop said:

The thing that annoys me is the pretence that the BEV ownership experience will be the same as ICEV ownership in terms of convenience and expense.  It won't be; BEVs will be more expensive and less convenient. That doesn't mean we shouldn't change to BEVs but let's stop pretending.  It's going to be very difficult for some people, mostly those with the least money.  

You're making some big assumptions there. Switching to an EV has been both cheaper and more convenient for me.

When you add up all the time I spent driving to and from petrol stations, queuing, then standing there like an idiot holding the nozzle, then queuing again to pay etc. it's significantly more time than I spend plugging my car in when I get home and occasionally changing a setting in the app.

Then remember all those oil changes, faffing around under the car replacing the exhaust pipe, brake pads and disks, etc... 

EVs work for you and a lot of other people and that's good.  But at the moment you can get a reliable 4-500 mile range ICE car for a few thousand pounds that you can top up in a few minutes at any number of public fuel stations and that's not going to be the case with BEVs for a long time, if ever.  I think sometimes we (and I include myself) forget how little spare money (and/or access to credit) a lot of people have.  Even the money to install a home charger is out of reach for many people even if they had the space.

I could afford an EV but at the moment my car use would mean too much inconvenience as well a lot more expense so at the moment I won't be getting one. 

You're right, it very much is down to personal circumstances; and it certainly is a privileged position to be able to borrow £20k at under 2% interest. I understand that, for many people, switching to an EV wouldn't make sense right now. However, I think there are a large number of people who are misinformed or prejudiced against them who would actually benefit massively from making the leap.

My overriding point is that people should take a pragmatic look at the reality and (rather than looking for edge case, atypical examples) focus on the bigger picture of the benefits within their day-to-day driving. Obviously many people are already doing this - hence the exponential growth of EV sales.

MouldyOldDough

Herzlos said:

Deleted_User said:

Herzlos said:

troffasky said:

Jenni_D said:

I don't think it's worth bothering to reply to MOD any further

Generally speaking, yes. MOD is just concern trolling, but the question about how those of limited mobility will use charging points is a valid one.

The mobility point is actually a good one, buried in trolling, and definitely needs some additional thought or consideration.

How do we make it easier for people who can't get out of the car or carry a cable, that doesn't rely on public good will?

Like I said, there will be EV stations replacing petrol stations which offer the same issue as having to have a person come out and do it for you. It’s exactly the same obstacle. 

Oh I get that, and that should satisfy most use cases.

I was thinking more in terms of how I've never seen a disabled charging bay yet,

That's because there is just one fully accessible charging point in the UK, representing 0.003% of all those available.

The vast majority are seperated by kerbs and other things designed to restrict access to wheelchairs etc

Herzlos

MouldyOldDough said:

Herzlos said:

Deleted_User said:

Herzlos said:

troffasky said:

Jenni_D said:

I don't think it's worth bothering to reply to MOD any further

Generally speaking, yes. MOD is just concern trolling, but the question about how those of limited mobility will use charging points is a valid one.

The mobility point is actually a good one, buried in trolling, and definitely needs some additional thought or consideration.

How do we make it easier for people who can't get out of the car or carry a cable, that doesn't rely on public good will?

Like I said, there will be EV stations replacing petrol stations which offer the same issue as having to have a person come out and do it for you. It’s exactly the same obstacle. 

Oh I get that, and that should satisfy most use cases.

I was thinking more in terms of how I've never seen a disabled charging bay yet,

That's because there is just one fully accessible charging point in the UK, representing 0.003% of all those available.

The vast majority are seperated by kerbs and other things designed to restrict access to wheelchairs etc

All completely valid points. Even thinking about it the charging points here aren't very accessible; they are in the middle of standard rows so if there are cars parked to either side it's not possible to get a wheelchair around the car, and there's not usually space behind the bays to go round the long way and so on.

So yeah, it'll be nice to see their categorization criteria and what councils plan to do about it. It may take care of itself eventually just by adding charging points to existing blue badge spaces.

I also wonder if the cars themselves can be made more disability friendly, in terms of cable reels and such.

ComicGeek

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Herzlos said:

Deleted_User said:

Herzlos said:

troffasky said:

Jenni_D said:

I don't think it's worth bothering to reply to MOD any further

Generally speaking, yes. MOD is just concern trolling, but the question about how those of limited mobility will use charging points is a valid one.

The mobility point is actually a good one, buried in trolling, and definitely needs some additional thought or consideration.

How do we make it easier for people who can't get out of the car or carry a cable, that doesn't rely on public good will?

Like I said, there will be EV stations replacing petrol stations which offer the same issue as having to have a person come out and do it for you. It’s exactly the same obstacle. 

Oh I get that, and that should satisfy most use cases.

I was thinking more in terms of how I've never seen a disabled charging bay yet,

That's because there is just one fully accessible charging point in the UK, representing 0.003% of all those available.

The vast majority are seperated by kerbs and other things designed to restrict access to wheelchairs etc

All completely valid points. Even thinking about it the charging points here aren't very accessible; they are in the middle of standard rows so if there are cars parked to either side it's not possible to get a wheelchair around the car, and there's not usually space behind the bays to go round the long way and so on.

So yeah, it'll be nice to see their categorization criteria and what councils plan to do about it. It may take care of itself eventually just by adding charging points to existing blue badge spaces.

I also wonder if the cars themselves can be made more disability friendly, in terms of cable reels and such.

Yes, all valid points. As with most things, the easy wins have been considered first and the more difficult situations left until later.

It would have been good for all EVs to be designed with the charging point in the same place, for all charging stations to be built with sufficient space to make it easier for everyone, for the charger screens to be set at a lower height for wheelchair users etc - but this is what happens when the Government just leaves it up to individual companies to set their own standards!

EVs at the moment definitely suit particular groups of people and not everyone - that will change, but it's only natural that the easy wins are concentrated on first. People forget that we're in the first few years of a 20-25 year changeover, it's not going to happen overnight.

MouldyOldDough

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Herzlos said:

Deleted_User said:

Herzlos said:

troffasky said:

Jenni_D said:

I don't think it's worth bothering to reply to MOD any further

Generally speaking, yes. MOD is just concern trolling, but the question about how those of limited mobility will use charging points is a valid one.

The mobility point is actually a good one, buried in trolling, and definitely needs some additional thought or consideration.

How do we make it easier for people who can't get out of the car or carry a cable, that doesn't rely on public good will?

Like I said, there will be EV stations replacing petrol stations which offer the same issue as having to have a person come out and do it for you. It’s exactly the same obstacle. 

Oh I get that, and that should satisfy most use cases.

I was thinking more in terms of how I've never seen a disabled charging bay yet,

That's because there is just one fully accessible charging point in the UK, representing 0.003% of all those available.

The vast majority are seperated by kerbs and other things designed to restrict access to wheelchairs etc

All completely valid points. Even thinking about it the charging points here aren't very accessible; they are in the middle of standard rows so if there are cars parked to either side it's not possible to get a wheelchair around the car, and there's not usually space behind the bays to go round the long way and so on.

So yeah, it'll be nice to see their categorization criteria and what councils plan to do about it. It may take care of itself eventually just by adding charging points to existing blue badge spaces.

I also wonder if the cars themselves can be made more disability friendly, in terms of cable reels and such.

How about charger sockets on the cars being at a standard height which would then offer the possilbility of "hands free" charging when you back up to the connector and it automatically plugs in ?

Or eventually "wireless" charging through induction - which needs considerable development to reduce time.

Even better would be a complete battery exchange - where you rent a battery and swap it with a fully charged one - batteries would need to be a standard though - which will never happen

Herzlos

Automated docking shouldn't actually be a problem; park in a certain way and have a robotic arm insert the plug*. It'll certainly happen for self driving cars but I'm not sure if it'd really take off for human driven cars because humans suck at parking. But even then, for self driving cars it might work better by dropping contacts from underneath the car and charge from rails on the ground which you couldn't do in a public car park because someone will manage to get fried.

Charging via induction works too, but it's pretty inefficient. Finland seems to be doing a lot with wireless charging.

Ergates

troffasky said:

Ergates said:

There's nothing special about charging an EV that means it wouldn't work with any of those options.

Sticking to the difference between EV and ICE here - EV charge points are largely unattended, filling stations are not. So if you need someone to plug it in for you then your charging options are much more restricted.

Maybe some day in the future, you can glide up to a charging point and the built-in robotic arm will plug it in for you.

That's just the as-is situation though, there is no reason it has to be that way though.  There is no reason petrol stations couldn't replace some of their pumps with rapid charging stations - in fact I suspect that's quite likely to happen as the number of ICE vehicles on the roads reduces, the businesses will adapt.

Herzlos

I think it's pretty much a given that over time the number of ICE pumps at petrol stations will decrease and be replaced with rapid charging. What isn't certain is whether the petrol stations will remain staffed; I'd assume yes as many serve as convenience stores and cafes but the smaller ones may just go self service.

Ectophile

There's already only a tiny profit margin selling petrol.  The oil companies keep all the profit for themselves.  Once the numbers of ICE vehicles stares to fall, petrol stations will close down.  It would make sense to reopen them as well-maintained rapid charging stops.  You could even open an on-site coffee shop and make a killing.

MouldyOldDough

All electric cars are a con-trick. THE most efficient gas power plant in the uk is around 44 per cent efficient and the rest are worse. Then there is the losses getting the power from the plant to the car charging point. There is the losses from the charging itself. This means the whole process is nor more than 25% to 30% efficient at best. What this means is we are burning 3 to 4 times as much fuel as we need compared to if we used petrol engines. Most of which these days are 80 to 90% efficient. Thats before you realise electric cars are vulnerable to EMP attacks and can all be taken out with ease. Not only that when they catch fire they cant be put out for hours and tend to re-ignite. Loser leaders in power need to get a grip and stop all this non-sense. Anyone who thinks they are saving the planet buy going electric is out of their tiny mind.