EV range

Grumpy_chap

MouldyOldDough said:

petrol engines. Most of which these days are 80 to 90% efficient. 

Can you provide a source for that please?

The real thing about EV is that an EV can be powered by renewable energy.  That is not possible to say for any ICE.

Herzlos

MouldyOldDough said:

All electric cars are a con-trick. THE most efficient gas power plant in the uk is around 44 per cent efficient and the rest are worse. Then there is the losses getting the power from the plant to the car charging point. There is the losses from the charging itself. This means the whole process is nor more than 25% to 30% efficient at best. What this means is we are burning 3 to 4 times as much fuel as we need compared to if we used petrol engines. Most of which these days are 80 to 90% efficient. Thats before you realise electric cars are vulnerable to EMP attacks and can all be taken out with ease. Not only that when they catch fire they cant be put out for hours and tend to re-ignite. Loser leaders in power need to get a grip and stop all this non-sense. Anyone who thinks they are saving the planet buy going electric is out of their tiny mind.

I've never seen so much wrong in a single post, well done.

Everything with electronics is vulnerable to EMP, though most are shielded to some extent and would need a very high power attack. An EV won't be any worse there than an ICE.

No petrol engine is close to 90% efficient. Oil power stations may get to about 90% efficient but petrol engines are 40% at best. The easiest way to prove that is to witness the heat and noise produced - that's wasted. Even an electric car run purely on electricity from an oil power station is more efficient than a petrol car.

There's no con to EV's, they just make sense.

You've made it very clear you don't like electric cars for whatever reason, but can you at least do some basic research before spouting garbage?


Edit: First line of google results for "petrol car engine efficiency" says 25-30%. It's possible to get as high as 50% but not on anything road legal.

Martyn1981

Actually, CCGT's (combined cycle gas turbines) are about 50-60% efficient*, but only about 35% (and falling) of our leccy now comes from FF generation, down from about 75% ~10yrs ago.

*Perhaps you are thinking of OCGT (open cycle gas turbines) effectively jet engines with a drive shaft. These are about 35-40% efficient but are used for fast response and peaker services, or last resort when demand is exceptionally high. These services are slowly losing business to battery storage.

As we move to renewable leccy generation, roughly 75% of the generation will reach the road in motive power, the other 25% lost in transmission, charging and the vehicles mechanical losses.

Petrol cars are not 80-90% efficient, they are about 20% efficient. Diesel truck engines can reach about 44% efficiency, but of course won't operate at that level in real use. Diesel cars operate at about 30%.

The petrol of course doesn't magically appear in the car's fuel tank, you have to consume energy driving to the petrol station, consume energy pumping the petrol, consume energy running the tanker truck to the petrol station, consume energy (approx 4-6kWh per gallon) refining the petrol, consume energy shipping the crude oil (roughly 45% of all shipping by weight is fossil fuels), consume energy extracting the oil from the ground / beneath the sea [I won't include the energy to build the oil rigs since the green leccy needs construction too (such as PV and wind farms)], consume energy looking for the oil reserves.

In the unlikely (!) event of an EMP strike, the computer engine management on ICEV's would be fried.

Petrol and diesel is actually quite flammable and there are far more fires per ICEV than per BEV.


Edit - Apologies to the other responses, I didn't see there was another page, and replied without checking. Sorry for so much repetition. M.

CKhalvashi

MouldyOldDough said:

All electric cars are a con-trick. THE most efficient gas power plant in the uk is around 44 per cent efficient and the rest are worse. Then there is the losses getting the power from the plant to the car charging point. There is the losses from the charging itself. This means the whole process is nor more than 25% to 30% efficient at best. What this means is we are burning 3 to 4 times as much fuel as we need compared to if we used petrol engines. Most of which these days are 80 to 90% efficient. Thats before you realise electric cars are vulnerable to EMP attacks and can all be taken out with ease. Not only that when they catch fire they cant be put out for hours and tend to re-ignite. Loser leaders in power need to get a grip and stop all this non-sense. Anyone who thinks they are saving the planet buy going electric is out of their tiny mind.

EVs can be powered by renewable electricity though, which mine allegedly 100% is.

Mine hasn't caught fire (its a Hyundai Ioniq, not a Zafira) and I don't expect it to.

I couldn't give you a grid CO2 estimate for mine in my circumstances, but I'm guessing it's less than an equivalent petrol/diesel.

Best of all, it's money saving overall and about the same price as a well specced Focus/Astra etc, so I'm up from day 1.

ElefantEd

MouldyOldDough said:

All electric cars are a con-trick. THE most efficient gas power plant in the uk is around 44 per cent efficient and the rest are worse. Then there is the losses getting the power from the plant to the car charging point. There is the losses from the charging itself. This means the whole process is nor more than 25% to 30% efficient at best. What this means is we are burning 3 to 4 times as much fuel as we need compared to if we used petrol engines. Most of which these days are 80 to 90% efficient. Thats before you realise electric cars are vulnerable to EMP attacks and can all be taken out with ease. Not only that when they catch fire they cant be put out for hours and tend to re-ignite. Loser leaders in power need to get a grip and stop all this non-sense. Anyone who thinks they are saving the planet buy going electric is out of their tiny mind.

Such nonsense. Petrol has to be moved around the country to fuel stations too - a lot less efficiently than moving electrons along wires. And road legal petrol engines are only about 20-35% efficient at converting chemical energy to motion. Most of it is lost as heat. Electric cars typically convert 90% of the electrical energy to motion. Where are you getting your figures from?

EVs are vulnerable to EMP attacks, certainly. And so are all other modern cars, which are full of electronics. An EMP attack is not something I generally worry about anyway. If there were such an attack there would be rather more to worry about than the range of my EV!

As for fires, there is a much greater chance of an ICE car catching fire than an EV, by a factor of about 50. However, it's true that fires are harder to put out in EVs. Again, not something I generally worry about. It is very unlikely to happen.

It is true that buying an EV will not save the planet. We really need to get away from having personal vehicles at all, and generall driving less. But if you are going to drive, an EV is substantially better for the environment, or rather, is substantially less harmful.

Petriix

Electric cars are awesome. I did a 50 mile round trip today and used just 18% of my (48.8kWh usable) battery. That's 5.7 miles per kWh at less than 1p per mile. At 200g of CO2 per kWh, that's just 35g per mile - roughly 10% of a typical ICE in the real world.

Grumpy_chap

Petriix said:

5.7 miles per kWh

That's super hyper-mileing
How does that compare to your average?

CKhalvashi

Petriix said:

Electric cars are awesome. I did a 50 mile round trip today and used just 18% of my (48.8kWh usable) battery. That's 5.7 miles per kWh at less than 1p per mile. At 200g of CO2 per kWh, that's just 35g per mile - roughly 10% of a typical ICE in the real world.

Scared to ask how you're managing that, amazing job, well done!

ididgetwhereiamtoday

I’m getting 5.1 miles per kw from my Leaf and generally carrying 5 people around so I don’t think I can better that. But I keep off motorways and drive in b mode and hardly ever use brakes. 

Petriix

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

5.7 miles per kWh

That's super hyper-mileing
How does that compare to your average?

My long-term average is 3.9 miles per kWh.

This particular journey was all B-roads and country lanes once out of the city. I had a bit of a tailwind on the way out and took it pretty easy with very gentle acceleration and planning a long way ahead. Stuck to 55mph and below and had a 4x4 to follow for most of the way home; I wasn't in a hurry! Ambient temperature was perfect so HVAC was off.