Smart meter removal/Economy 10

MWT

AnnieRichards said:

I also did what one of their earliest messages suggested and contacted 2 other companies who do still support E10 only to be told that as I now have a Smart meter they wouldn’t be willing to take over my supply - also both companies were currently trying to deal with the takeover from the failed smaller suppliers and couldn’t tell me when they could take me over as a regular non-E10 customer either.

I'm not aware of any supplier that supports E10 on a Smart meter, all the pressure on suppliers is to bring E10 accounts to an end.

Re the Smart meter team, it is going to take someone deciding to go the extra mile as if the question is phrased as 'do we support E10 on smart meters' the answer is always going to be 'no'...

I hope you can find a way through this eventually.

The other problem that Octopus may have is that they do not work directly with your smart meter,they have to access it via a 3rd party and it is possible that they do not have the necessary templates for a message to configure the ALCS to mimic your E10 pattern as it isn't something routinely supported.

GoneWestWoman

Gerry1 said:

It seems that some people with an E10 meter did manage to sign up to Octopus.

https://economy10.com/forum/t/octopus-energy/

Time to quote the sections in the Good Practice Guide !

3. Apply the Informed Choices principles

Ofgem’s Informed Choices principles came into effect on 23rd June 2017. These principles should ensure customers are able to make informed choices about their tariffs. These principles place a greater responsibility on suppliers to deliver positive customer outcomes. This should mean that no restricted meter customer is left worse off as a result of poor/incomplete information or insufficient advice from suppliers.

Suppliers should allow customers to move back to their restricted meter tariff

Some customers who switch to a single rate tariff may find themselves paying more for their electricity.  Suppliers should identify and contact customers whose electricity bills rise rapidly after switching to a single rate or Economy 7/10 tariff to alert them to this change.

The CMA remedy was designed to deliver positive outcomes for customers with restricted meters.  Suppliers should minimise the risks of this occurring by acting in line with the informed choices principles (see above).  However, where customers find themselves worse off they should be supported by their supplier to reduce their costs. This should include the option of moving back to their old restricted meter tariff (where possible), or moving to a cheaper tariff with another supplier.

Hi @Gerry1 thank you for your earlier post regarding my conundrum.  

I’m particularly keen to quote what you’ve highlighted in red, could you please advise me what this is from and where it’s located so that I can put it in context in my next missive to Octopus Energy?

I don’t know if you’ve seen the posts after your original reply, but do you have any other advice for me? I’d be terribly grateful if you do!

many thanks.

annie

molerat

This should include the option of moving back to their old restricted meter tariff (where possible), or moving to a cheaper tariff with another supplier.

The problem is the highlighted points.  It is not easily possible with your current meter and other suppliers will not take you on, nor can they be forced to.

The whole smart meter roll out has been a complete fiasco.  Poorly specified, poorly implemented and poorly overseen by an abysmally complacent regulator. Currently used tariff compatibility should have been written into the specs / licence conditions.

MWT

molerat said:

Currently used tariff compatibility should have been written into the specs / licence conditions.

To be fair, the smart meters are perfectly capable of metering E10, or 'E' anything you can think of, it is not a technology problem with the meters.

E10 has been on the way out for some time now with fewer and fewer suppliers being willing to offer it as a tariff, and frequently pricing it in ways that are unappealing even if they do still offer it.

The way that the retailers pay for the energy they resell makes E10 even more unprofitable than E7 and their other tariffs, and with the shift to half-hour settlement that is only going to get worse.

I do hope the OP can get a good solution out of this but in general, remaining on E10 is not likely to be a viable long-term plan for anyone...

GoneWestWoman

@MWT and yet I suspect that none of us will fall into the fuel poverty bracket when we will all be in that position.  As far as I can make out from research E10 was only for those of us who heat our homes with the new technology electric boilers approximately 8 years ago?  Not exactly very old systems.  We did what the energy companies wanted and moved the majority of our usage to off-peak hours which avoids overloading the grid during peak times for everyone else.  Damned if you do, damned if you don’t……….  Unless you have an electric car of course!

molerat

A few councils here that installed these systems are now ripping them out and have done a deal to get gas into locations where it was previously unavailable.  Where this is not possible they are giving the tenants an energy subsidy to help cover the cost.  Yet another symptom of the lack of joined up energy policies we have.

Gerry1

AnnieRichards said:

I’m particularly keen to quote what you’ve highlighted in red, could you please advise me what this is from and where it’s located so that I can put it in context in my next missive to Octopus Energy?

@AnnieRichards I copied and pasted from the Restricted Meter Good Practice Guide from Citizens Advice.
Also see this recent letter from Ofgem to an MP:  'More generally, we know that many customers on restricted meters have struggled with accessing and assessing information about tariffs available to them, which in turn has made it difficult for them to switch tariffs. In recent years, a number of measures have been introduced to provide more information and choice to customers on restricted meters. This includes an obligation to offer certain single rate tariffs to customers with restricted meters – which, in some cases, may be cheaper for customers.'

'In addition, Ofgem has also taken action in a number of cases where we have found that suppliers have broken the rules for customers on restricted meters – including, for example, in cases where customers have been incorrectly charged. This has resulted in compensation to affected customers and goodwill payments.'

CA also reported on the case of a supplier that had to offer pay protection to match their old tariff prices (see the big blue boxes near the end).

MWT

AnnieRichards said:

As far as I can make out from research E10 was only for those of us who heat our homes with the new technology electric boilers approximately 8 years ago?

It has been around since 2004 I believe and fortunately was implemented in a better way than THTC which was an earlier attempt to address the same problem for those with night storage heaters, or more recently electric wet heating systems.

The root of the problem though is the really poor performance of the electric 'wet' heating systems and in the same way that those systems have been shown to be a poor investment and interest has switched to ASHP, the demand for E10 has also fallen and with the change to smart meters most suppliers are exiting from the E10 tariffs as quickly as they can it seems.

 

Gerry1

@AnnieRichards IANAL and all that but I can't see why, having seriously misinformed you that E10 would not be affected by having a smart meter, Octopus can't put you back in the position you were in.

If they really can't source an E10 meter then they need to bill you exactly as they were doing previously.  If that means that they have to flag your account and someone has to extract the half hour data and prepare a bill manually every time, then so be it, they created the problem hence they need to find an acceptable solution.

You seem to have the evidence to make a good case; ask for transcripts and/or recordings of the phone calls if you don't already have them.  It looks like CA and Ofgem are increasingly aware of the problems with E10 becoming a legacy tariff, and the cases where the old tariff has been honoured and / or compo has been paid are useful precedents.

If you go to the ombudsman, remember that they don't investigate, they just look at the evidence (seems you won't see the supplier's evidence) and then make their decision.  Be quite specific about exactly what you are seeking (e.g. reinstatement of E10 meter / honouring of old tariff, 'aggro compo' of £150?) and make sure your case is bomb-proof !

Northern_Wanderer

MWT said:

AnnieRichards said:

As far as I can make out from research E10 was only for those of us who heat our homes with the new technology electric boilers approximately 8 years ago?

It has been around since 2004 I believe and fortunately was implemented in a better way than THTC which was an earlier attempt to address the same problem for those with night storage heaters, or more recently electric wet heating systems.

The root of the problem though is the really poor performance of the electric 'wet' heating systems and in the same way that those systems have been shown to be a poor investment and interest has switched to ASHP, the demand for E10 has also fallen and with the change to smart meters most suppliers are exiting from the E10 tariffs as quickly as they can it seems.

 

I'd like to add though about an estate locally, built maybe 10 years ago. All houses have ASHP with electric boilers and were on E10 and no gas supply has been put into the estate. A modern alternative to gas but in a backward sort of way regarding E10 tariffs if this is what is happening to people in the same way as what happened to those on THTC having little choice of suppliers or tarrifs. I did notice that there is a 2p difference between E7 and standard meter rates on Octopus, and it used to be much more of a difference, but I guess if you're heating with electric that's going to add up to a lot extra.