Smart meter removal/Economy 10

GoneWestWoman

My energy supplier has recently made an error (admitted by them, in writing) when offering me a smart meter.  I can’t find any information about removing the smart meter and having the previous type reinstalled.  I’ve searched online but can’t see any info as it’s such a peculiar request.  I’m currently going through their complaints system but suspect it’s going to get to “Deadlock” and will then go onto the Ombudsman.  Can anyone help please?  Do I have the right to have the old meter reinstalled? 

marcia_

AnnieRichards said:

My energy supplier has recently made an error (admitted by them, in writing) when offering me a smart meter.  I can’t find any information about removing the smart meter and having the previous type reinstalled.  I’ve searched online but can’t see any info as it’s such a peculiar request.  I’m currently going through their complaints system but suspect it’s going to get to “Deadlock” and will then go onto the Ombudsman.  Can anyone help please?  Do I have the right to have the old meter reinstalled? 

 What error?
 There is a huge push to have everyone on smart meters and most suppliers won't install old meters, some claim to not have any to instal. 

[Deleted User]

I struggle to see how any supplier could have made an error by offering you a smart meter when all suppliers are required by BEIS to meet smart meter rollout targets. 

A smart meter is just a meter than allows the transmission of usage data via a communications hub to your supplier. If you don’t want the supplier to use smart meter readings for billing then just say so. You can then send them manual meter readings as you were doing previously. I doubt that any supplier is going to replace a working smart meter with an analogue meter. 

Gerry1

Dolor said:

A smart meter is just a meter than allows the transmission of usage data via a communications hub to your supplier.

Absolutely not so.

It can ration your energy supply and cut you off if you are a refusenik.  With your knowledge of the industry, I'm very surprised that you've never heard of Load Limiting, Load Shedding and Surge Pricing.

SAC2334

Gerry1 said:

Dolor said:

A smart meter is just a meter than allows the transmission of usage data via a communications hub to your supplier.

Absolutely not so.

It can ration your energy supply and cut you off if you are a refusenik.  With your knowledge of the industry, I'm very surprised that you've never heard of Load Limiting, Load Shedding and Surge Pricing.

DNO s do not need smart meters to enable load limiting.
 In an area close to Doncaster, Hexthorpe   where meter fiddling and cannabis farms are rife all the  tenants were getting several power cuts per day in the coldest months Of Dec /Jan 2020. The main fuses limiting power to the streets were frequently blowing due to vast overusage .
The people fiddling the meters are all smart meter refuseniks in that area 
 This is reported in the local press this year when the police  raided 5 cannabis farms in one street alone , mainly to avoid wholesale power cuts in the area.

Gerry1

SAC2334 said:

Gerry1 said:

Dolor said:

A smart meter is just a meter than allows the transmission of usage data via a communications hub to your supplier.

Absolutely not so.

It can ration your energy supply and cut you off if you are a refusenik.  With your knowledge of the industry, I'm very surprised that you've never heard of Load Limiting, Load Shedding and Surge Pricing.

DNO s do not need smart meters to enable load limiting.
In an area close to Doncaster, Hexthorpe   where meter fiddling and cannabis farms are rife all the  tenants were getting several power cuts per day in the coldest months Of Dec /Jan 2020. The main fuses limiting power to the streets were frequently blowing due to vast overusage .
The people fiddling the meters are all smart meter refuseniks in that area 
This is reported in the local press this year when the police at least raided 5 cannabis farms in one street alone .

Slightly different things.  I was referring to the smart meter's specified ability to ration individual properties to a kW or two at times of peak demand and to cut them off remotely if the householder refuses to reduce their usage, e.g by switching off their panel heaters and electric cooker.  That's very different to street fuses blowing.

The fact that the culprits had refused smart meters seems totally irrelevant, presumably they had by-passed their traditional meters and would have done exactly the same thing if they'd had smart meters.

MWT

AnnieRichards said:

Do I have the right to have the old meter reinstalled? 

No, there is no right to have a smart meter replaced, nor any obligation on a supplier to even have older meters available.

It is the other way around, if there is a need to replace an older meter, the supplier is obliged to do that with a smart meter if it is possible to fit one.

If you could give us a little more detail on exactly what happened it might help us see if there is anything that would give you a chance of achieving what you want?

GoneWestWoman

Long story short…… I had an Economy 10 tariff with Octopus because I have an electric boiler NOT storage heaters.  It works the same as a traditional central heating system but instead of having a gas boiler I have an electric one.  Not a common system but perfectly manageable with Economy 10.  I rent the property and the system was put in 7 years ago.  Octopus contacted me offering a Smart meter and I replied (via their website message system) asking whether it was suitable for Economy 10 and telling them that I’m a tenant, not the owner.  Their reply was that it would make no difference at all.  The week before the appointment I received a telephone call from them informing me that there had been a cancellation in my area and could it be fitted the next day.  I again asked whether it was suitable for my circumstances, particularly the Economy 10 tariff and was told “yes”.  There is a recording of the conversation which Octopus have listened to and admitted that the information given was incorrect.  I cannot have the Economy 10 tariff with a Smart meter and have been put on the Economy 7 hours.  This means that I cannot heat my home in the winter.  The Economy 7 tariff only gives overnight cheaper rates whereas the E10 gave me 5 hours during the daytime and 5 hours overnight.  E7 is perfect for storage heaters because they charge up overnight and release the heat during the day.  I do NOT have storage heaters!  Their argument is that I can still use my heating overnight and it’s my choice not to therefore I have only lost 3 hours.  I have tried every which way to explain to them that I do not want my house heated during the night and freezing cold during the day but they are refusing to acknowledge the cost implication of running the heating at full cost during the day.  Think of a giant kettle boiling and sending the hot water round the radiators, then imagine the cost!!  I have no other way of heating my home because there is no gas in the village and the property is thatched so the landlord has removed the chimney stack to prevent fires being lit.  I have been a customer with Octopus for 3 ½ years.  I have kept very detailed information about my usage and it clearly shows the units used in off-peak compared to peak hours for the past 7 years.  It is clear that during a year I use at least 4/5ths of the energy during those off peak hours because of the heating.  They say there is nothing they can do.  One message said “sorry, there is nothing we can do.  You will have to find another supplier” literally!!  But no one can offer the Economy 10 with a Smart meter.  That’s why my question was about getting the old meter reinstated.

Ultrasonic

What a horrible position to have been put in. Have you been through a formal complaint procedure with Octopus?

Northern_Wanderer

Maybe @Gerry1 can help?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/Energy/Energy%20Consultation%20responses/Restricted%20Meter%20Good%20Practice%20Guide.pdf

This doc only mentions smart meters being a potential benefit....

"the remedy has been developed as a temporary solution for restricted meter customers, with the
expectation that the installation of smart meters will bring down the barriers
these customers face"

If that is the case, why can't you have E10 on smart?

It may give you some pointers of the teams that are meant to be available in the energy companies re economy 10 etc.

MWT

The odd part in this is that Octopus do not have an E10 tariff, was this a single meter E10 solution before it was replaced by a smart meter?

E.ON used to do something like that with one meter, recording on 2 registers but with the additional hours for E10, not sure anyone else supported it though...

It just looks like an E7 meter to any other supplier which is where the confusion can occur...