Smart meter removal/Economy 10

Gerry1

It seems that some people with an E10 meter did manage to sign up to Octopus.

https://economy10.com/forum/t/octopus-energy/

Time to quote the sections in the Good Practice Guide !

3. Apply the Informed Choices principles

Ofgem’s Informed Choices principles came into effect on 23rd June 2017. These principles should ensure customers are able to make informed choices about their tariffs. These principles place a greater responsibility on suppliers to deliver positive customer outcomes. This should mean that no restricted meter customer is left worse off as a result of poor/incomplete information or insufficient advice from suppliers.

Suppliers should allow customers to move back to their restricted meter tariff

Some customers who switch to a single rate tariff may find themselves paying more for their electricity.  Suppliers should identify and contact customers whose electricity bills rise rapidly after switching to a single rate or Economy 7/10 tariff to alert them to this change.

The CMA remedy was designed to deliver positive outcomes for customers with restricted meters.  Suppliers should minimise the risks of this occurring by acting in line with the informed choices principles (see above).  However, where customers find themselves worse off they should be supported by their supplier to reduce their costs. This should include the option of moving back to their old restricted meter tariff (where possible), or moving to a cheaper tariff with another supplier.

pochase

If you read through the linked thread it seems that this was no real E10 Octopus provided, but an extended E7 tariff with 10 hours are night.

Also it seems there were statements that once the E10 meter fails they won't be able to replace it.

In the official list of E10 suppliers Octopus is not listed

https://economy10.com/list-of-suppliers/

Northern_Wanderer

I've read that there are "multi rate" smart meters that can deal with E10. I'm unsure if these are currently available as it says they will be rolled out in later phases of the smart meter roll out.

I also read that Octopus take on E10 Customers and put them on E7 but add 3 extra hours, which I assume is what you had...so if they can give you E7 on the smart meter, why can't they add 3 extra hours? Surely you have a "multi rate" meter if you have E7?

QrizB

Northern_Wanderer said:

I've read that there are "multi rate" smart meters that can deal with E10. I'm unsure if these are currently available as it says they will be rolled out in later phases of the smart meter roll out.

All SMETS2 smart meters can support four rates (see for example Green Energy Tide with three rates and four charging periods) but that's not directly relevant to the OP's question since the OP only needs two rates, peak and off-peak.

I would imagine that Octopus are quite capable of programming the OP's smart meter with two 5-hour off-peak periods per day, but consider the time and effort involved to be disporportionate.

If for some reason currently-unknown reason smart meters aren't capable of that, Octopus could instead pull the 30-minute data and do the peak/off-peak split at their end instead (much as they do with Go and Agile).

I also read that Octopus take on E10 Customers and put them on E7 but add 3 extra hours, which I assume is what you had...so if they can give you E7 on the smart meter, why can't they add 3 extra hours? Surely you have a "multi rate" meter if you have E7?

This, exactly. Octopus could make the OP happy by reprogramming their smart meter to mirror the previous E10 hours, or by making the necessary adjustments at their back end.

MWT

Northern_Wanderer said:

I've read that there are "multi rate" smart meters that can deal with E10. I'm unsure if these are currently available as it says they will be rolled out in later phases of the smart meter roll out.

I also read that Octopus take on E10 Customers and put them on E7 but add 3 extra hours, which I assume is what you had...so if they can give you E7 on the smart meter, why can't they add 3 extra hours? Surely you have a "multi rate" meter if you have E7?

All smart meters are capable of handling multiple rates and registers, the missing part is that the supplier has to have the systems and the tariff to offer that sort of thing, and Octopus do not offer the sort of split rate E10 that the OP had on the old meter.

If you check the original post they had 5 hours at night and 5 hours in the day, that is not something Octopus offer and frankly if they had spotted that was the way the original meter was configured they would not have taken it on in the first place as they have no tariff that matches that.

What the OP wants is to be put back onto something that Octopus simply doesn't offer.

This isn't as simple as replacing the meter as that will not get them back to something that Octopus doesn't actually sell in the first place.

Northern_Wanderer

MWT said:

If you check the original post they had 5 hours at night and 5 hours in the day, that is not something Octopus offer and frankly if they had spotted that was the way the original meter was configured they would not have taken it on in the first place as they have no tariff that matches that.

What the OP wants is to be put back onto something that Octopus simply doesn't offer.

This isn't as simple as replacing the meter as that will not get them back to something that Octopus doesn't actually sell in the first place.

The OP was happy for three years with whatever method was used to give 2 x 5 hour Economy rates, even that is odd as I thought E10 was usually spilt into 3 periods of economy rate. Clearly people with these types of systems are still getting treated unfairly. If they have to move supplier and get a restricted meter installed, Octupus should be paying compensations to cover the cost of meter installation plus goodwill for the inconvenience. But, sounds like the smart meter is capable...so, all goes back the the Good Practice guide mentioned earlier.

MWT

Northern_Wanderer said:

The OP was happy for three years with whatever method was used to give 2 x 5 hour Economy rates, even that is odd as I thought E10 was usually spilt into 3 periods of economy rate.

I would suspect that Octopus were unaware that the two registers on the previous mechanical meter were allowing the 2 x 5 hour periods to be delivered at the cheap rate in the first place.

From the supplier end they have only the meter profile as recorded on the central database to indicate how the meter is supposed to be set, and no way to directly tell what was happening.

No idea what the 'correct' resolution is here to be honest as there is no match between what the OP was benefiting from (5 hours at the low rate in the day time) and any valid Octopus tariff...

Ultrasonic

Recompense here is particularly problematic given it's a rented property. The OP could simply move out if bills become too high due to this but the landlord is left with a property that may be harder to rent (if prospective tenants ask the right questions). The only truly reasonable recompense would be a long term solution that replicates the original arrangement but from posts above I'm not sure how realistic this may be.

MWT

One for the OP I guess...

Who was the supplier before Octopus?

Clearly there has to have been a supplier that came up with this 5+5 tariff that the meter was set to implement, and it obviously wasn't Octopus...

GoneWestWoman

Not sure how to reply to everyone’s individual thoughts but for clarification Octopus have been my supplier for 3 ½ years and had me on the Economy 7 tariff with the following hours: 00:00 - 05:00 + 13:00 - 16:00 + 21:00 - 23:00 = 5 hours overnight and 5 hours during the day therefore equalling 10 hours.  They happily took me as a customer from SSE as an Economy 10 customer and have been brilliant.  My old meter was put in 7 years ago when the landlord put the heating system in and was a dual band meter.  The new Smart meter is a SMETS2 and has the ability to run their Agile tariff as it has the capacity to take 48 readings over a 24 hour period.  I have suggested everything and pointed out that it should therefore be relatively simple for them to still provide the Economy 10 hours via this meter but the Customer Complaints department say that they can’t do anything at all to help me.  I have asked about the Agile tariff but they advised that it is currently not economically viable for my circumstances due to the uncertainty with the energy market.  As someone has said, who is going to be willing to rent this property knowing the extortionate cost it will be to heat it - and anyway I love my home!  My neighbours are also with Octopus and are also on the same Economy 10 system I was on with the same heating system.  I have sent emails showing the costs and usage for the past 3 ½ years with them clearly detailing that 4/5ths of my energy is used off-peak because of the heating system but they just keep saying that there’s nothing they can do.  They have repeatedly admitted that it is their error (thank goodness that they DO record their telephone conversations!).  Surely they are liable for their error?! They have offered me £102.46 in compensation but my calculations show that it will cost me £400 extra per year and that’s without the price rise coming in October.  And what about the future?  I accept that my washing machine, water, clothes drier etc can still be run overnight on the Economy 7 tariff and won’t therefore cost me anymore than before but they cannot understand the cost of heating my home!  I have contacted the CEO Greg Jackson but just got directed back to the Advisor who has said that she has liaised with the metering experts who say there is nothing they can do!  I am now 5 weeks into a formal complaint and realise that it will probably get to the “deadlock” stage where Ofgem can get involved but from what Octopus has said to date, if there’s nothing they can do then there’s nothing they can do!  I don’t accept that.  THEY made the error and have admitted it (in writing) but what can I now do?  Thankfully it’s summer so the heating isn’t needed now, but in November……..?  To give you an idea my total energy use according to the in home device since the 27th of April 2022 is £45.69 and my account with them is £100 in credit.  I have never been in arrears and at one point had a credit balance of over £280, so I’m not a “bad” customer.  I need to know if I have the right to ask them to put the old meter back or something similar?  Any help gratefully received Guys!