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New query

Apologies if answered already but can't find on thread.

I'm at LBC stage. Have appealed to landowner with no success so am preparing defence for SCC. Have following queries:

Landowner advised they will incur costs if they instruct PPC to drop/reduce fine. (They naively sought advice from PPC cowboys). Is this correct, is it likely to be at the discretion of the PPC whether to bill the landowner & am I correct in thinking the "cost" would be the now unlawful admin fees the PPC charge? 

Also, the landowner is a charity organisation. Their losses the day I parked would have been from non spend in their cafe or donation from the other visitor who could have parked in that space. Does this help my argument in relation to original "fine" of £60 being excessive  (unlikely anyone spends or donates this amount. It is a free museum).

Many thanks & great work you're doing.
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Replies

  • TrainermanTrainerman Forumite
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    I have only seen a few contracts, and your first point relates to the details on the contract. However, I do know of one where if the landowner cancelled , they had to pay on a sliding scale, from small admin to full fee ( if after weeks) ! So, yes point one is possibly true.

    I am not an expert, but I do not think point two will fly, and went out with Beavis. You must have better defences than that. What were the signs like, were you only over by a few minutes, was it ANPR controlled etc. See what the real experts say when they get here, but I would be looking in those directions
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    'Losses/excessive charge' has no legs since the ParkingEye v Beavis case at The Supreme Court in 2015. 

    Whether the landowner has to pay a cancellation charge will depend on what it says in their contract with the PPC (which you have no access to until the Witness Statement stage of the court process). Often they are allowed so many 'freebies' a month, then there's a charge. Quite common. 

    Which parking firm and which solicitors?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • Half_wayHalf_way Forumite
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    Wigwamfan said:
    Apologies if answered already but can't find on thread.

    I'm at LBC stage. Have appealed to landowner with no success so am preparing defence for SCC. Have following queries:

    Landowner advised they will incur costs if they instruct PPC to drop/reduce fine. (They naively sought advice from PPC cowboys). Is this correct, is it likely to be at the discretion of the PPC whether to bill the landowner & am I correct in thinking the "cost" would be the now unlawful admin fees the PPC charge? 

    Also, the landowner is a charity organisation. Their losses the day I parked would have been from non spend in their cafe or donation from the other visitor who could have parked in that space. Does this help my argument in relation to original "fine" of £60 being excessive  (unlikely anyone spends or donates this amount. It is a free museum).

    Many thanks & great work you're doing.

    I would ask the landowner for at the minimum a letter/statement saying they do not support their agents pursing this through the courts.
     A little more information would also help us to help you here:
    Name of parking company?
     Name/location of charity?
     location of car park?
     reason for getting a parking charge notice?
     Has the identity or assumed identity of the driver been disclosed (yes/no)?

    There is also some ground in the statment that

    "Landowner advised they will incur costs if they instruct PPC to drop/reduce fine."
     assuming landowner is a charitable organisation?

    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
  • WigwamfanWigwamfan Forumite
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    Thanks. I thought as Govt has stipulated from 2023 that charges should be £50 with opportunity to pay £25 in cases such as mine, it has been agreed that £100 reduced to £60 is classed as excessive? 

    Parking Solutions 24 Ltd and Gladstones 
  • TrainermanTrainerman Forumite
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    What was the alleged contravention?

  • WigwamfanWigwamfan Forumite
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    Here, not hear! 
  • WigwamfanWigwamfan Forumite
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    Want to avoid SCC. Thinking of writing to PPC, landowner & charity board stating keeper is wiling to pay £25 as per new laws due 2023 to resolve matter out of SCC.

    Aware need to make PPC understand however that willing to go to SCC if they decline & will succinctly (for benefit of charity board & landowner) outline the strong defence I have based on advice from this forum- technicalities re non compliant NTK (suspected at mo), driver ID, inadequate signage plus illegality of added admin fees, original "fine" now recognised as excessive by Govt, fact I've tried to resolve reasonably out of SCC 
  • WigwamfanWigwamfan Forumite
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    I'm a frontline NHS worker serving the same community as the charity too. Redeployed to the Covid wards during the first wave. Really can't afford £170. Would a SCC judge consider this if it went this far?  
  • edited 14 May at 12:13PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    edited 14 May at 12:13PM
    Why not ask the landowner what it will cost under their contract for them to instruct their agent to cancel the PCN?

    Usually it's between a tenner and £60.

    Tell them, if it is under £30 you will reimburse them that fee in full, but they are NOT to approach the PPC on that basis.  Not to tell the PPC that the consumer has offered to pay this cost. Just that they want this one cancelled and how much will that be?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • patient_dreampatient_dream Forumite
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    Parking Solutions 24 Ltd and Gladstones ..... THE FAMOUS DUO
    Really can't afford £170

    The£170 includes the fake add on.

    And you are right about the new code but whilst it is law, it will not be enacted until next year so the parking charge remains until then.
    Regarding the fake add-on by Gladstones, it has been made very clear by government that such fakes are banned and government expects the parking industry to work within the spirit of the law.

    Gladstones as usual are trying it on so as you must respond to the LBA. But you can ask them for their legal authority to add extra charges especially as government has banned such charges.  If it goes to court, the same question must be raised by the judge

    Many times have Gladstones been told that they CANNOT add fake charges but Gladstones ignore the courts hoping they can find a judge who is a mug.

    The onus is on Gladstones to show why they are not working within the spirit of the law

    And your SAR to the PPC can include your address which they already have plus a copy of your V5.
    NEVER send photo ID as this is a scam industry and you do not want ID theft


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