The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

Thrugelmir

yessuz said:

Thrugelmir said:

yessuz said:

iwb100 said:

The thing is it’s cost of buying that’s prohibitive. People have cars that they need. I am getting a 7 seater because I need it. What choice would I have electric for sensible money?

Can you describe sensible? Do you take into account a one-off purchase cost or you look at overall lifetime cost?

I think the other major barrier is the network. Electric dealers I’ve spoken to who have had EVs a while even say that it’s getting worse with respect to charging as more EVs are sold and the stats show it’s becoming drastically worse. The sorts of trips families have to do in the holidays on long motorways journeys with kids need a charging network that can be analogous or as close as possible to filling up at the service station. Or a range that makes charging unnecessary. So you need affordable EVs that have real world range using the heater or air con and music etc of 400 miles. Or thereabouts. Or you need a car that charges in 5-10 minutes and enough chargers at service stations etc to satiate any demand. Imagine queuing for a charger that takes say half an hour and you have two cars in front of you. Nobody on earth will tolerate that.

That is not true. There's loads of chargers being built. And in 99% of the time you will charge your car at home (if you have access to that)

To make EVs work we needed a huge infrastructure program that started years ago to secure land and reconfigure existing operations to allow massive increase in charging points. To really work you need every parking space at every service station to be a charger. And they all need to work.
That’s the challenge. Yet as said above nobody is doing a thing about it.

No, that is not true again. check the zapmap

Currently there's a global shortage of key components to make EV charging points. Easy to dismiss the challenges that lie ahead and achieve the transformation goals.  The UK is forecast to have only 25% of the neccessary public charging points installed by 2032. Those that can afford to switch , have off road parking etc etc  are in the minority.  Growth is likely to plateau and stall. The initial buzz will fade once reality strikes and the cost to the public purse becomes apparent. 

What the UK requires is another Alec Issigonis. 

while there are some of the culprits, it's not entirely true.
You should remember and even factor in, that 99% of your (and any other person's) charges will be done at home (or at the destination). 

Around 50% of the properties in this country don't have off road parking. There's a lot of wishfull thinking going on rather than addressing the practicalities. 

yessuz

Jenni_D said:

BEVs need a different mindset ... think of a BEV almost like a laptop - charge it to 80%, use it, charge it back to 80%, use it some more (maybe so that the charge level falls to 20%), charge it back to a reasonable level, etc. (Charging happening at convenient times and locations). The fill-to-empty (and refill) mindset doesn't apply for BEVs.

exactly.
I, myself, converted to EV on February (when my car was delivered) and since then I already:
- drove 5300 miles
- charged 1.46 MWh of which only 100 kwh was at superchargers (read - public fast chargers)
- I spent whopping 121 gbp to cover that distance in energy costs
- my cost per 100 miles is 2.73 gbp - please show me any ICE at least close to this figure

yessuz

Thrugelmir said:

yessuz said:

Thrugelmir said:

Petriix said:

People keep going on about the purchase price as if it's an absolute limiting factor. But anyone with access to sufficient credit isn't limited in that way. If you're only paying 2% interest on that £20k, it's just £33 per month. if you're saving £100 on fuel then you can factor in the cost of the interest. For me, running a £23k EV has been cheaper than running a £200 banger.

The days of 2% interest rates will soon be in the past. That's if you could get that rate in the first place. 

sure. I hear that for last 8 years now

Wake up and smell the coffee.......

and yet, the same "end of cheap money" story is on this particular forum for last 8 years now.

yessuz

Thrugelmir said:

yessuz said:

Thrugelmir said:

yessuz said:

iwb100 said:

The thing is it’s cost of buying that’s prohibitive. People have cars that they need. I am getting a 7 seater because I need it. What choice would I have electric for sensible money?

Can you describe sensible? Do you take into account a one-off purchase cost or you look at overall lifetime cost?

I think the other major barrier is the network. Electric dealers I’ve spoken to who have had EVs a while even say that it’s getting worse with respect to charging as more EVs are sold and the stats show it’s becoming drastically worse. The sorts of trips families have to do in the holidays on long motorways journeys with kids need a charging network that can be analogous or as close as possible to filling up at the service station. Or a range that makes charging unnecessary. So you need affordable EVs that have real world range using the heater or air con and music etc of 400 miles. Or thereabouts. Or you need a car that charges in 5-10 minutes and enough chargers at service stations etc to satiate any demand. Imagine queuing for a charger that takes say half an hour and you have two cars in front of you. Nobody on earth will tolerate that.

That is not true. There's loads of chargers being built. And in 99% of the time you will charge your car at home (if you have access to that)

To make EVs work we needed a huge infrastructure program that started years ago to secure land and reconfigure existing operations to allow massive increase in charging points. To really work you need every parking space at every service station to be a charger. And they all need to work.
That’s the challenge. Yet as said above nobody is doing a thing about it.

No, that is not true again. check the zapmap

Currently there's a global shortage of key components to make EV charging points. Easy to dismiss the challenges that lie ahead and achieve the transformation goals.  The UK is forecast to have only 25% of the neccessary public charging points installed by 2032. Those that can afford to switch , have off road parking etc etc  are in the minority.  Growth is likely to plateau and stall. The initial buzz will fade once reality strikes and the cost to the public purse becomes apparent. 

What the UK requires is another Alec Issigonis. 

while there are some of the culprits, it's not entirely true.
You should remember and even factor in, that 99% of your (and any other person's) charges will be done at home (or at the destination). 

Around 50% of the properties in this country don't have off road parking. There's a lot of wishfull thinking going on rather than addressing the practicalities. 

This is inaccurate.
Quick google and I get this: https://www.sidmartinbio.org/how-many-houses-in-uk-have-driveways/ - at least 60% have driveways. and this % will increase as majority of new homes are now actually built with driveways.
It already covers ~50% of population
those particularly all can have easy and simple home charging.
others will be able to use lamp post and other charging means. https://www.ubitricity.com/

Thrugelmir

yessuz said:

Thrugelmir said:

yessuz said:

Thrugelmir said:

Petriix said:

People keep going on about the purchase price as if it's an absolute limiting factor. But anyone with access to sufficient credit isn't limited in that way. If you're only paying 2% interest on that £20k, it's just £33 per month. if you're saving £100 on fuel then you can factor in the cost of the interest. For me, running a £23k EV has been cheaper than running a £200 banger.

The days of 2% interest rates will soon be in the past. That's if you could get that rate in the first place. 

sure. I hear that for last 8 years now

Wake up and smell the coffee.......

and yet, the same "end of cheap money" story is on this particular forum for last 8 years now.

Low interest rates were only ever intended to be temporary. The BOE would ideally like to see base rate eventually return to the 3.5% - 4.5% range. Events over the other side of the pond are likely to dictate what other Central Banks do globally.  There's significant increases already pencilled in for 2022.  

yessuz

Thrugelmir said:

Low interest rates were only ever intended to be temporary. The BOE would ideally like to see base rate eventually return to the 3.5% - 4.5% range. Events over the other side of the pond are likely to dictate what other Central Banks do globally.  There's significant increases already pencilled in for 2022.  

so when it will happen - then let's talk. again, EXACTLY SAME ARGUMENTS are here for last 10 years.

Thrugelmir

yessuz said:

Thrugelmir said:

Low interest rates were only ever intended to be temporary. The BOE would ideally like to see base rate eventually return to the 3.5% - 4.5% range. Events over the other side of the pond are likely to dictate what other Central Banks do globally.  There's significant increases already pencilled in for 2022.  

so when it will happen - then let's talk. again, EXACTLY SAME ARGUMENTS are here for last 10 years.

No desire to pointlessly argue. There's plenty of informed conversation outside of the world of social media. 

yessuz

Thrugelmir said:

yessuz said:

Thrugelmir said:

Low interest rates were only ever intended to be temporary. The BOE would ideally like to see base rate eventually return to the 3.5% - 4.5% range. Events over the other side of the pond are likely to dictate what other Central Banks do globally.  There's significant increases already pencilled in for 2022.  

so when it will happen - then let's talk. again, EXACTLY SAME ARGUMENTS are here for last 10 years.

No desire to pointlessly argue. There's plenty of informed conversation outside of the world of social media. 

I agree on that. only thing I wanted to point out, that the end of low interest rates have been prophesied here for 10 years. that's it

yessuz

Herzlos said:

Absolutely. At some point you couldn't travel 200 miles without stopping with a petrol car either, and now it's completely normal.

still, even travel 200 miles without a single stop for a wee or stretch legs is a challenge, because I definitelly want to take a break every 3 hours of driving or so., not to mention 400 miles / 6 hrs driving non stop....

Herzlos

yessuz said:

Herzlos said:

Absolutely. At some point you couldn't travel 200 miles without stopping with a petrol car either, and now it's completely normal.

still, even travel 200 miles without a single stop for a wee or stretch legs is a challenge, because I definitelly want to take a break every 3 hours of driving or so., not to mention 400 miles / 6 hrs driving non stop....

I don't think I've ever actually managed 200 miles without a pee break before. 150 miles, maybe.