The big fat Electric Vehicle bashing thread.

yessuz

iwb100 said:

The thing is it’s cost of buying that’s prohibitive. People have cars that they need. I am getting a 7 seater because I need it. What choice would I have electric for sensible money?

Can you describe sensible? Do you take into account a one-off purchase cost or you look at overall lifetime cost?

I think the other major barrier is the network. Electric dealers I’ve spoken to who have had EVs a while even say that it’s getting worse with respect to charging as more EVs are sold and the stats show it’s becoming drastically worse. The sorts of trips families have to do in the holidays on long motorways journeys with kids need a charging network that can be analogous or as close as possible to filling up at the service station. Or a range that makes charging unnecessary. So you need affordable EVs that have real world range using the heater or air con and music etc of 400 miles. Or thereabouts. Or you need a car that charges in 5-10 minutes and enough chargers at service stations etc to satiate any demand. Imagine queuing for a charger that takes say half an hour and you have two cars in front of you. Nobody on earth will tolerate that.

That is not true. There's loads of chargers being built. And in 99% of the time you will charge your car at home (if you have access to that)

To make EVs work we needed a huge infrastructure program that started years ago to secure land and reconfigure existing operations to allow massive increase in charging points. To really work you need every parking space at every service station to be a charger. And they all need to work.
That’s the challenge. Yet as said above nobody is doing a thing about it.

No, that is not true again. check the zapmap

yessuz

iwb100 said:

Top selling cars in 2022 are the Corsa, Kia Sportage, Ford Puma, Hyundai Tucson…

Whats the relative cost of something equivalent to the Sportage, Tucson, Qashqai (further down but in the top 10 sellers list). The sort of family cars people are actually buying. And given these are family cars needs to be something with similar space and storage and a pretty decent range.,.

actually no. among top selling cars in 2022 was tesla model 3 (top 3 IIRC) and top seller in december (and February/march/april this year.

Thrugelmir

yessuz said:

iwb100 said:

The thing is it’s cost of buying that’s prohibitive. People have cars that they need. I am getting a 7 seater because I need it. What choice would I have electric for sensible money?

Can you describe sensible? Do you take into account a one-off purchase cost or you look at overall lifetime cost?

I think the other major barrier is the network. Electric dealers I’ve spoken to who have had EVs a while even say that it’s getting worse with respect to charging as more EVs are sold and the stats show it’s becoming drastically worse. The sorts of trips families have to do in the holidays on long motorways journeys with kids need a charging network that can be analogous or as close as possible to filling up at the service station. Or a range that makes charging unnecessary. So you need affordable EVs that have real world range using the heater or air con and music etc of 400 miles. Or thereabouts. Or you need a car that charges in 5-10 minutes and enough chargers at service stations etc to satiate any demand. Imagine queuing for a charger that takes say half an hour and you have two cars in front of you. Nobody on earth will tolerate that.

That is not true. There's loads of chargers being built. And in 99% of the time you will charge your car at home (if you have access to that)

To make EVs work we needed a huge infrastructure program that started years ago to secure land and reconfigure existing operations to allow massive increase in charging points. To really work you need every parking space at every service station to be a charger. And they all need to work.
That’s the challenge. Yet as said above nobody is doing a thing about it.

No, that is not true again. check the zapmap

Currently there's a global shortage of key components to make EV charging points. Easy to dismiss the challenges that lie ahead and achieve the transformation goals.  The UK is forecast to have only 25% of the neccessary public charging points installed by 2032. Those that can afford to switch , have off road parking etc etc  are in the minority.  Growth is likely to plateau and stall. The initial buzz will fade once reality strikes and the cost to the public purse becomes apparent. 

What the UK requires is another Alec Issigonis. 

Ibrahim5

Depreciation is normally the most expensive part of running a new car. It's very abnormal at the moment which is how Petriix can keep making his claims. When depreciation is back to normal all his claims fall apart.

yessuz

iwb100 said:

Exactly this. I think people are prepared to make some sacrifices. They always are. But if you are on the motorway on a bank holiday and need to charge how long are people prepared to wait? Maybe 15 minutes in a queue and then half an hour for it to charge. That would be considerably longer than filling up but like I say some sacrifices needed.

But to achieve that your need hundreds and hundreds of charging points at each services. 

I don’t see any sign of such major projects happening. But maybe they are. 

this is not how it works

Petriix

Ibrahim5 said:

Depreciation is normally the most expensive part of running a new car. It's very abnormal at the moment which is how Petriix can keep making his claims. When depreciation is back to normal all his claims fall apart.

How much do you think my MG5 will be worth in 2027?
£10k? £5k?
How much more would I have spent on running that £200 banger over those 7 years?

yessuz

Thrugelmir said:

Petriix said:

People keep going on about the purchase price as if it's an absolute limiting factor. But anyone with access to sufficient credit isn't limited in that way. If you're only paying 2% interest on that £20k, it's just £33 per month. if you're saving £100 on fuel then you can factor in the cost of the interest. For me, running a £23k EV has been cheaper than running a £200 banger.

The days of 2% interest rates will soon be in the past. That's if you could get that rate in the first place. 

sure. I hear that for last 8 years now

yessuz

Thrugelmir said:

yessuz said:

iwb100 said:

The thing is it’s cost of buying that’s prohibitive. People have cars that they need. I am getting a 7 seater because I need it. What choice would I have electric for sensible money?

Can you describe sensible? Do you take into account a one-off purchase cost or you look at overall lifetime cost?

I think the other major barrier is the network. Electric dealers I’ve spoken to who have had EVs a while even say that it’s getting worse with respect to charging as more EVs are sold and the stats show it’s becoming drastically worse. The sorts of trips families have to do in the holidays on long motorways journeys with kids need a charging network that can be analogous or as close as possible to filling up at the service station. Or a range that makes charging unnecessary. So you need affordable EVs that have real world range using the heater or air con and music etc of 400 miles. Or thereabouts. Or you need a car that charges in 5-10 minutes and enough chargers at service stations etc to satiate any demand. Imagine queuing for a charger that takes say half an hour and you have two cars in front of you. Nobody on earth will tolerate that.

That is not true. There's loads of chargers being built. And in 99% of the time you will charge your car at home (if you have access to that)

To make EVs work we needed a huge infrastructure program that started years ago to secure land and reconfigure existing operations to allow massive increase in charging points. To really work you need every parking space at every service station to be a charger. And they all need to work.
That’s the challenge. Yet as said above nobody is doing a thing about it.

No, that is not true again. check the zapmap

Currently there's a global shortage of key components to make EV charging points. Easy to dismiss the challenges that lie ahead and achieve the transformation goals.  The UK is forecast to have only 25% of the neccessary public charging points installed by 2032. Those that can afford to switch , have off road parking etc etc  are in the minority.  Growth is likely to plateau and stall. The initial buzz will fade once reality strikes and the cost to the public purse becomes apparent. 

What the UK requires is another Alec Issigonis. 

while there are some of the culprits, it's not entirely true.
You should remember and even factor in, that 99% of your (and any other person's) charges will be done at home (or at the destination). 

Those who do not have off-road parking actually I think a minority. + other infrastructure investments, like lamp post charger, etc are there.

The whole logic of driving to empty, fill in at gas station to the top and drive to empty does not really work with EVs. You should always look at it as using your mobile phone. Where do you charge it most of the time? At home, during the night. same goes with EV. if you are running low - you will only stop to top up required 20% or so to reach your destination. this will be done at the same time as you walk to the loo..

Jenni_D

BEVs need a different mindset ... think of a BEV almost like a laptop - charge it to 80%, use it, charge it back to 80%, use it some more (maybe so that the charge level falls to 20%), charge it back to a reasonable level, etc. (Charging happening at convenient times and locations). The fill-to-empty (and refill) mindset doesn't apply for BEVs.

Thrugelmir

yessuz said:

Thrugelmir said:

Petriix said:

People keep going on about the purchase price as if it's an absolute limiting factor. But anyone with access to sufficient credit isn't limited in that way. If you're only paying 2% interest on that £20k, it's just £33 per month. if you're saving £100 on fuel then you can factor in the cost of the interest. For me, running a £23k EV has been cheaper than running a £200 banger.

The days of 2% interest rates will soon be in the past. That's if you could get that rate in the first place. 

sure. I hear that for last 8 years now

Wake up and smell the coffee.......