Private driveway

Half_way

Coupon-mad said:

90 mins free parking will be detected only by ANPR.  Someone has lied to you.

Not only that, because of the way ANPR 'works' you and your neighbours will get postal PCNs every week for driving in and out twice in 24 hours. It's called a double dip and the ANPR camera will see you on a Monday and Tuesday and accuse you of staying overnight.

This will happen to you every week; maybe every 48 hours.  Forever.  And all your visitors will be picked up too and if they visit you longer than 90 minutes they will all get a PCN too.

I would send the landowner and the owner of UKPC a final notice that you specifically object to the ANPR system which is known to have a 'double dip' error and will take two drive-pasts in 24 hours as one long stay.

As such you will pursue the landowner for a reasonable but nominal £50 'per PCN' in damages for distress, time and trouble every time you have to handle a PCN.

This is fair notice if your objection, distress and intentions to charge for damages, and their agreement to this will be by conduct, if the landowner continues to let their notorious ex-clamper agent let this happen.

If it becomes an ongoing problem, then you will also get a solicitor to file an injunction and will seek further damages for the cost of the legal work and the enormous likely detrimental effect on your house price and saleability.

And you will now complain to the ICO the minute the ANPR camera system goes in.

You might want to get together with the other neighbours and just prevent it with a solicitors' letter threatening an injunction.

You might want to check your home insurance; if you have free legal cover USE IT NOW.

If you or any of your visotors/guests gets so much as a parking charge notice from this, then you need to go down the unauthorised access of personal data/ breach of GDPR route with them , both with the parking company and the landowner as principal.

 

Do not agree to anything other than the removal of the PPC, and do not under any circumstance agree to a white list of vehicle registrations. Most people drive the same vehicle however should your be in another car for whatever reason and forget to inform the PPC of a new reg number, or a mistake is made with the reg number of the new vehicle the a parking ticket may well be issued.

 Should you be in a hire car - ie one provided by an insurance company following a bump/accident or one provided by a garage as a courtesy and that car gets a parking charge then things can get quite difficult if the hire/lease company pays the parking charge ( thinking its a fine0 then passes the charge plus a hefty "admin" fee on to you.

 

Coupon-mad

do not under any circumstance agree to a white list of vehicle registrations.

Absolutely.

That would be conceding to the regime and asking permission to access the OP's own property.  Letting this landowner have that power erodes the currently unfettered right of way and will ruin the saleability of the OP's property.

Lindsey006

The landowner tried this already (this was his first approach in asking for our registrations and family members) and the houses involved all agreed that this was an unacceptable burden on us, so no way will any of us provide this. I wouldn’t know the registration numbers of visiting tradesmen etc plus as you say for example, my daughter had to hire a car unexpectedly etc it would be impossible to keep up 100% correct, and I would effectively be running a database of visiting vehicles. Plus this is surely an infringement of my rights - why should I tell UKPC who is visiting me, I have no contract with them. I think the landowner accepts this but he would still like ANPR. Fortunately the 3 houses are 100% together on this and will not give in. 

B789

J63320 said:

Lindsey006 said:

…. UKPC have convinced him that this will earn money. ….

This might be a silly question, but here goes: if the offer is 90 minutes free parking - i.e. no charge is made for the actual parking - then where is this money going to come from, other than from PCNs?

You've answered your own question.

Boat_to_Bolivia

All I can say is that I urge you to follow the sage advice of @Coupon-mad and @Half_way.

The PPC don't care if you have a contract with them or not, the landowner has given them permission to run roughshod over anyone who dares to enter that car park, including you and the other homeowners.

Lindsey006

We have already sent a legal letter, drafted by a solicitor and signed by all of us. The solicitor was not convinced that an injunction could be enforced but the houses are all prepared to spend on this and do it ourselves if ANPR arrives. It would be intolerable I think. I do have free legal cover with my home insurance (thanks for that idea) so I will give them a call maybe in advance of any potential PCNs etc  or further camera development so I am ready for action! 

Half_way

If ANPR does appear, then make sure you let the landowner know that you object to it and if anything arises as a result, such as parking charge notice then you will have no other option than to seek action with the aim of getting the parking company's equipment removed - remind them that they will be jointly liable for the actions of their agents.

There is also a privacy concern where a third party will/could be able to access who visits and when and for how long plus the fact that those monitoring such data have no background checks and can easily locate a vehicles owner again with no background checks .

 On a personal level i would have no issues with a dumb private camera system overlooking outside of where i live ( ie ring door bell/google nest cam) however if that system is operated by a private company who intend to use the data for comercial reasons then things change significantly

And on another note, if someone who is in danger from another person - ie domestic violence victim , or a young adult  at risk of harm  drives to the a property as a safe house , and the registered keeper of the vehicle gets a parking charge notice then that could put that individual at risk if they are not the registered keeper - and that is also one reason why i'm surprised ( or not) that Hospitals seem to think that the PPC standard model is acceptable

As for the lane issue, for now i would sit back and see what happens/appears then take it from there

Fruitcake

All you can do is keep an eye out for either the installation of ANPR scameras, or someone arriving, taking photos, leaving, and coming back every 90 minutes to 2 hours.
If the former, complain immediately to the council planning office and your MP. 

If the latter, watch out for someone taking photos of your vehicle when you stop to open/close your gate. If this happens to delivery vehicles/taxis etcetera, you could find your property blacklisted by delivery companies.

Ditto for you neighbours.

Have you already checked to see if UKPC have been granted advertising consent for the signs? If it has not been granted then that should initiate immediate complaints. 

B789

Unfortunately, you are probably screwed anyway, with regards to getting home deliveries such as Amazon or other couriers. Once they start receiving PCNs, which is almost undoubtedly likely, you and your neighbours addresses will be blacklisted.

You need to preempt this...

Lindsey006

I wrote to the council yesterday re the signage, they will come back within 5 working days so will let you know if they take any action. I could not find anything to say that UKPC had applied for permission so I suspect they haven’t. Thought it best to have a written trail and I have a reference number for the case. I am going to spend all evening looking at the car park. At night it is very dark out there, there are no local street lights here so presumably there will be torchlight from the patrol person. Still just the 5 cars correctly parked in bays so far.