Stressful Completion - Seller Refused to Move Out!

Ath_Wat

user1977 said:

Ath_Wat said:

user1977 said:

aoleks said:

At that point, having strangers in their house is not enough to call the police? 

No. Besides, what are you expecting the police to do about it? Help carry their stuff into a removal van?

I imagine he'd be expecting the police to order them to leave and really not care where they go or what they do.  Whether they have the legal right to do this is another question

They don't, and it would be an utter waste of the police's time. What crime is being committed?

Trespassing is not a crime but you can call the police in order to ask somebody to leave your property if they refuse to.

Therefore if they had left the house at the appointed time according to their contract, then re-entered five minutes later after the OP had arrived, the police could be called to ask them to leave.
I accept that there may be a specific exception in this case because they were actually in the house at the appointed time of handover, but if that is the law, that is the exceptional part.  

Ath_Wat

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

user1977 said:

aoleks said:

At that point, having strangers in their house is not enough to call the police? 

No. Besides, what are you expecting the police to do about it? Help carry their stuff into a removal van?

I imagine he'd be expecting the police to order them to leave and really not care where they go or what they do.  Whether they have the legal right to do this is another question, but the OP 's concern is not facilitating their move but getting them out; their property can wait.  The OP really shouldn't care if they end up sleeping in a  bus stop (which they won't, as they have another house).

Do you think a beat bobby will throw an elderly couple out of their home and onto the street on the basis of someone else's claim that they now own the house?

If so, what's to stop criminals getting the police to help them steal elderly people's homes?  Think about it.

I certainly hope the police would ask an elderly couple in MY house to leave and go their own house, which we know they have.  They may have rights to remain in this particular case but there is nothing absurd about wanting them to leave.  If they had left then come back half an hour later you'd not let them in, would you?

What's to stop the police arresting you for murder on my say so alone?  Hopefully the fact that they actually make some enquiries into the case instead of just doing whatever someone asks.  In this case, speaking to the solicitors would be a good start.

LunaCatty

lookstraightahead said:

I've been reading this in absolute horror op, how utterly selfish of the vendors and how they do a disservice to older vendors (or any vendors to be honest). You deserve a medal for your patience and once you have the keys I would be not engaging with them again. I hope they've forgotten to redirect their post ☹️

On advice from solicitor and agent we haven't talked to them directly ever since they pulled this on us on Monday - that way they can't make any further false claims of things we have said/agreed. My husband said the same on post I may seem patient on here, but as I'm sure my husband will attest to, I'm a bubbling pot of rage and anxiety at the moment with it all! 

GDB2222

LunaCatty said:

lookstraightahead said:

I've been reading this in absolute horror op, how utterly selfish of the vendors and how they do a disservice to older vendors (or any vendors to be honest). You deserve a medal for your patience and once you have the keys I would be not engaging with them again. I hope they've forgotten to redirect their post ☹️

On advice from solicitor and agent we haven't talked to them directly ever since they pulled this on us on Monday - that way they can't make any further false claims of things we have said/agreed. My husband said the same on post I may seem patient on here, but as I'm sure my husband will attest to, I'm a bubbling pot of rage and anxiety at the moment with it all! 

If they have a removals van outside, they are obviously moving out. So, you’ll probably be inside spreading out your dust sheets by this evening.

Section62

Ath_Wat said:

Section62 said:

Do you think a beat bobby will throw an elderly couple out of their home and onto the street on the basis of someone else's claim that they now own the house?

If so, what's to stop criminals getting the police to help them steal elderly people's homes?  Think about it.

I certainly hope the police would ask an elderly couple in MY house to leave and go their own house, which we know they have.  They may have rights to remain in this particular case but there is nothing absurd about wanting them to leave.  If they had left then come back half an hour later you'd not let them in, would you?

And how would the police know it was your house - when the elderly couple are probably sitting there surrounded by elderly person's posessions, including no doubt photos of them with family members?

Nobody has said it is "absurd" for the OP to want them to leave.

What people have said is that there is a process to follow to achieve that outcome - which at this stage doesn't involve kicking doors down, nor involving the police.

Ath_Wat said:

What's to stop the police arresting you for murder on my say so alone?  Hopefully the fact that they actually make some enquiries into the case instead of just doing whatever someone asks.  In this case, speaking to the solicitors would be a good start.

Except it isn't the job of the police to speak to solicitors to determine the lawful right of someone to continue to occupy a property they are in the process of selling.  A court would make that determination.

Which is why several posters have said several times that this is a civil matter and not one in which it would be appropriate to call for help from the police (in the circumstances the OP has outlined).

Ath_Wat

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Section62 said:

Do you think a beat bobby will throw an elderly couple out of their home and onto the street on the basis of someone else's claim that they now own the house?

If so, what's to stop criminals getting the police to help them steal elderly people's homes?  Think about it.

I certainly hope the police would ask an elderly couple in MY house to leave and go their own house, which we know they have.  They may have rights to remain in this particular case but there is nothing absurd about wanting them to leave.  If they had left then come back half an hour later you'd not let them in, would you?

And how would the police know it was your house - when the elderly couple are probably sitting there surrounded by elderly person's posessions, including no doubt photos of them with family members?

Nobody has said it is "absurd" for the OP to want them to leave.

What people have said is that there is a process to follow to achieve that outcome - which at this stage doesn't involve kicking doors down, nor involving the police.

Ath_Wat said:

What's to stop the police arresting you for murder on my say so alone?  Hopefully the fact that they actually make some enquiries into the case instead of just doing whatever someone asks.  In this case, speaking to the solicitors would be a good start.

Except it isn't the job of the police to speak to solicitors to determine the lawful right of someone to continue to occupy a property they are in the process of selling.  A court would make that determination.

Which is why several posters have said several times that this is a civil matter and not one in which it would be appropriate to call for help from the police (in the circumstances the OP has outlined).

I have never suggested they kick the door down, just that I would think they have a right to do so should they be unable to enter any other way.  Just as they would if they turned up at an empty house they had bought and no keys were forthcoming.  Possession of keys is meaningless.  

Whether they are deemed to be in the process of selling the house, or have sold it, is the question.  

Here's a scenario for you.  The OP turns up, the vendors are gone , their possessions are still there, no keys are forthcoming.

If the OP forces entry (as I would think they have a right to) then in your mind do the police have a duty to attend if the vendors return and try and get into the house against the OP's wishes?

Is it purely and simply the fact that they were in the house at the moment of handover that gives them a right to remain?  Is it their physical presence at 2:30pm that prevents completion occurring?  If not, what?

Bonniepurple

OP, I’m glad to read your update and I hope that you’ll be sat in your house by the time you read this.  FWIW it does read as though the vendors are unused to house buying and selling, especially with the modern way of small gaps between exchange and completion and may well have thought that there would be a gap of X days before they needed to move out - especially as you aren’t moving straight in.  I know my Dad was shocked at the stress when we moved (2016 and 2021) - but he last moved in 1977 - and he was a first time buyer then.  

I hope you enjoy your new home.  

michelle09

I feel for you OP! We had this twice although neither time as bad as yours. First time the house was empty when we got there so just picked the lock and waited. The vendor insisted it was fine as 'we weren't moving in until next week.' Second time I am still not sure why they sat in an empty kitchen for 3 hours shouting at our removal guys. 

Both times we were and just made it abundantly clear we would not be leaving and the second they left the locks would be changed. 

Remember that if they haven't updated their address then sending post back to sender is an absolutely valid course of action. And that you can really upset previous vendors by sending back parcels and so they get charged the return postage to their accounts. 

Section62

Ath_Wat said:

I have never suggested they kick the door down, just that I would think they have a right to do so should they be unable to enter any other way.  Just as they would if they turned up at an empty house they had bought and no keys were forthcoming.  Possession of keys is meaningless.  

Whether they are deemed to be in the process of selling the house, or have sold it, is the question.  

Here's a scenario for you.  The OP turns up, the vendors are gone , their possessions are still there, no keys are forthcoming.

If the OP forces entry (as I would think they have a right to) then in your mind do the police have a duty to attend if the vendors return and try and get into the house against the OP's wishes?

Is it purely and simply the fact that they were in the house at the moment of handover that gives them a right to remain?  Is it their physical presence at 2:30pm that prevents completion occurring?  If not, what?

I didn't say you had suggested they kick the door down.

The hypothetical situations you put forward don't reflect the OP's situation, and debating them won't help the OP.

Hopefully their problem is now sorted - and with the least fuss, stress and expense all round.

Ath_Wat

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

I have never suggested they kick the door down, just that I would think they have a right to do so should they be unable to enter any other way.  Just as they would if they turned up at an empty house they had bought and no keys were forthcoming.  Possession of keys is meaningless.  

Whether they are deemed to be in the process of selling the house, or have sold it, is the question.  

Here's a scenario for you.  The OP turns up, the vendors are gone , their possessions are still there, no keys are forthcoming.

If the OP forces entry (as I would think they have a right to) then in your mind do the police have a duty to attend if the vendors return and try and get into the house against the OP's wishes?

Is it purely and simply the fact that they were in the house at the moment of handover that gives them a right to remain?  Is it their physical presence at 2:30pm that prevents completion occurring?  If not, what?

I didn't say you had suggested they kick the door down.

The hypothetical situations you put forward don't reflect the OP's situation, and debating them won't help the OP.

Hopefully their problem is now sorted - and with the least fuss, stress and expense all round.

Hopefully their problem is sorted, but I would be interested to know at what point completion is deemed to occur or not to occur.  You seemed very sure of your ground so I am asking.  If you don't know, that's fine.