C1 Scotland Inventory

oxford1035

buddy9 said:

oxford1035 said:

Hi Buddy,
Many thanks for your prompt reply. Just so l'm clear and haven't misled you, Mum lived in Scotland in her home and l live in England. But the adresses will be on page 1. Am l right in thinking that l don't have to put a value anywhere on the C1 for my home in England, but as you say, only need to consider the value for IHT, which l know is nder the IHT threshold anyway?

I had assumed that mum had died domiciled in Scotland due to the need to complete C1 form. Your comments are correct.

My comment about addresses was relevant to the declaration. If any names and addresses have changed since the will was written, then the changes need to be declared and explained in the declaration.

Hi Buddy,
Many thanks for all your help. That's made things much easier for me now,

Joeshmoe

buddy9 said:

Joeshmoe said:

Yes, you are correct. I thought I would be able to do all this myself, even bond of caution. Looks Like I will need a  solicitor after all. Would I still be able to submit the C1 for Mum AND engage a solictor. Would save me a fair bit.

Mum's executor is not caught by a bond of caution and would be able to submit C1. 

Sorry, one more question. Would I be able to get a solicitor to just get a bond of caution for my Dad, and then i can submit the C1 form for him (as my sister is executive dative.) ?

oxford1035

oxford1035 said:

buddy9 said:

oxford1035 said:

Hi Buddy,
Many thanks for your prompt reply. Just so l'm clear and haven't misled you, Mum lived in Scotland in her home and l live in England. But the adresses will be on page 1. Am l right in thinking that l don't have to put a value anywhere on the C1 for my home in England, but as you say, only need to consider the value for IHT, which l know is nder the IHT threshold anyway?

I had assumed that mum had died domiciled in Scotland due to the need to complete C1 form. Your comments are correct.

My comment about addresses was relevant to the declaration. If any names and addresses have changed since the will was written, then the changes need to be declared and explained in the declaration.

Hi Buddy,
Many thanks for all your help. That's made things much easier for me now,

Hi Buddy,

Another question has arisen that l'm hoping you know the answer to.

l phoned the Sheriff Court to see if l needed to make an apointment as l'm travelling home at the weekend and plan to take all the documents in to the court while l'm home next week.

The subject of my Mum's house came up and she said l need to be careful with how l describe the house in the inventory, The house was held as joint tenants between my Mum and Dad, so it passed to Mum when Dad passed away in 2015. Just before he passed away the solicitor was planning on changing the deeds so that one half of their house went to me and the other half to whoever survived. So my Dad's half was going to me after he passed away. But the deeds were never changed and remained as joint tenants.

In both their wills though, it states one half to the surviving spouse and the other half to me. In the event of both their passing everything passes to me solely. 

Do you know if there's a certain way l need to describe the house in the inventory, or can i list it as what l've seen elsewhere as heritible dwelling house and the full address?

buddy9

Joeshmoe said:

Sorry, one more question. Would I be able to get a solicitor to just get a bond of caution for my Dad, and then i can submit the C1 form for him (as my sister is executive dative.) ?

This seems an unlikely arrangement.

buddy9

oxford1035 said:

Hi Buddy,

The subject of my Mum's house came up and she said l need to be careful with how l describe the house in the inventory, The house was held as joint tenants between my Mum and Dad, so it passed to Mum when Dad passed away in 2015. Just before he passed away the solicitor was planning on changing the deeds so that one half of their house went to me and the other half to whoever survived. So my Dad's half was going to me after he passed away. But the deeds were never changed and remained as joint tenants.

In both their wills though, it states one half to the surviving spouse and the other half to me. In the event of both their passing everything passes to me solely. 

Do you know if there's a certain way l need to describe the house in the inventory, or can i list it as what l've seen elsewhere as heritible dwelling house and the full address?

Is this a different house than the house in England that you described in your earlier post? If so, where is it located?

oxford1035

buddy9 said:

oxford1035 said:

Hi Buddy,

The subject of my Mum's house came up and she said l need to be careful with how l describe the house in the inventory, The house was held as joint tenants between my Mum and Dad, so it passed to Mum when Dad passed away in 2015. Just before he passed away the solicitor was planning on changing the deeds so that one half of their house went to me and the other half to whoever survived. So my Dad's half was going to me after he passed away. But the deeds were never changed and remained as joint tenants.

In both their wills though, it states one half to the surviving spouse and the other half to me. In the event of both their passing everything passes to me solely. 

Do you know if there's a certain way l need to describe the house in the inventory, or can i list it as what l've seen elsewhere as heritible dwelling house and the full address?

Is this a different house than the house in England that you described in your earlier post? If so, where is it located?

Hi Buddy

It's my Mum's house in Fife. l spoke to someone at Land Registry after posting my question as l also have to change the deeds to my name after i get the confirmation. He told me that as the house was registered in 1975 it will be on the old register, therefore have no title number. He says l only need to put the actual address of the property. l hope this makes sense to you

buddy9

Oxford1035

That is helpful. I was slightly thrown by your description of Joint Tenants which is an English scheme of ownership/succession. The broad Scottish equivalent of JT is to have survivorship (a special destination) in the title and this operates outwith the will.

So my presumption: the Fife house had a survivorship destination in the title and passed to Mum on Dad’s death by survivorship. Mum’s will then leaves the house to you. Do you think this is correct?

The advice you have had from the sheriff court is at odds with the other guidance to just show an address. It is generally held that a short conveyancing type description is appropriate in the inventory. 

The old land register is the Register of Sasines. You can confirm that the house isn’t on the current Land Register at  https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/

Here is an example of a simple Sasine description used in an inventory (entries can sometimes be more complex)

Dwelling house, 1 Street, Anytown, postcode

Being the subjects described in the Disposition by (xxxxxxxxxx) if favour of (xxxxxxxx) and (xxxxxxx) recorded in the General Register of Sasines (insert county) (Date)

oxford1035

buddy9 said:

Oxford1035

That is helpful. I was slightly thrown by your description of Joint Tenants which is an English scheme of ownership/succession. The broad Scottish equivalent of JT is to have survivorship (a special destination) in the title and this operates outwith the will.

So my presumption: the Fife house had a survivorship destination in the title and passed to Mum on Dad’s death by survivorship. Mum’s will then leaves the house to you. Do you think this is correct?

The advice you have had from the sheriff court is at odds with the other guidance to just show an address. It is generally held that a short conveyancing type description is appropriate in the inventory. 

The old land register is the Register of Sasines. You can confirm that the house isn’t on the current Land Register at  https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/

Here is an example of a simple Sasine description used in an inventory (entries can sometimes be more complex)

Dwelling house, 1 Street, Anytown, postcode

Being the subjects described in the Disposition by (xxxxxxxxxx) if favour of (xxxxxxxx) and (xxxxxxx) recorded in the General Register of Sasines (insert county) (Date)

Hi Buddy,

Your presumption is 100% correct. My Mum and Dad's house was indeed survivorship. It's actually the solicitors and Sheriffs court that have caused all the confusion for me. The solicitor was supposed to be changing the deeds just before my Dad passed away. The reason the solicitor suggested it was to protect half my Mum and Dad's house, 

My Dad passed away before this could be done and l remember thinking that the house wasn't protected then, but the solicitor insisted as she'd put in their will that half was to go to me the house was safe. But l had read that the wills did not matter in this case as it's what was on the deeds that mattered, in our case survivorship. The solicitor wouldn't have it and it's only now that l'm about to apply for the Confirmation that l've had it confirmed that my thoughts about the deeds taking precedence over the wills is correct.

You have confirmed exactly what l was told by Land Registry that l only need to put the address of the house. Once again it was the Sheriffs Clerk that caused unnecessary confusion. It's quite annoying that the very people who you'd expect to know and help you cause more problems than needed.

l hope this makes sense to you. Many thanks again for your help as it's once again made things easier for me.

buddy9

You have confirmed exactly what l was told by Land Registry that l only need to put the address of the house. Once again it was the Sheriffs Clerk that caused unnecessary confusion. It's quite annoying that the very people who you'd expect to know and help you cause more problems than needed.

My post suggests that you need more than the address. If the house is in the Sasines register, include reference to the relevant disposition such as shown in my post. 

oxford1035

Hi Buddy,
Just so l get it right, exactly what names go in the brackets with the different (XXXX) please