Road Tax on EV's

Petriix

Deleted_User said:

I’m hijacking the thread as I don’t know how to create a new thread! 

I believe these ev Tarrifs are only available for existing customers?  My current (no pun intended) energy provider which is Soenergy do not do ev Tarrifs. 

I’m paying 19p a kw at the moment on a fixed deal which will end in august when I go on the price cap. If i stay on that I reckon my dual fuel annual bill will jump from £1k to nearly £3k. 

I do not have a smart meter but I do have a home smart charger. I am on the ‘waiting list’ for a smart meter. 

Does anyone have any advice? 

Your belief is somewhat Incorrect. Octopus are accepting new customers, and then you can switch to Go as soon as your compatible smart meter is sending 30 minute data.

British Gas were able to fit my smart meter within 3 weeks of joining (as SoLR after Neon Reef went bust). Other suppliers may vary.

I'm not party to your particular usage habits and I do have solar panels which help my figures, but I'm averaging about 10p per kWh with over 70% off peak usage - albeit on a slightly better version of Go Faster at 5p/24p vs the current 7.5p/35p offer. 

Grey_Critic

Petriix said:

surfer91919 said:

When you balance out embodied carbon and running emissions it seems to that the greenest car is the one you're driving now.

That's objectively untrue. The carbon footprint of manufacturing a complete EV will be totally offset within 50k miles of not burning fossil fuels (not to mention mining, transporting and refining them). But that's also ignoring the fact that the batteries aren't consumed during the life of the EV and will still be useful for decades to come, even at 50% capacity after 20 years of use. Then they're over 90% recyclable.

Petriix said:

surfer91919 said:

When you balance out embodied carbon and running emissions it seems to that the greenest car is the one you're driving now.

That's objectively untrue. The carbon footprint of manufacturing a complete EV will be totally offset within 50k miles of not burning fossil fuels (not to mention mining, transporting and refining them). But that's also ignoring the fact that the batteries aren't consumed during the life of the EV and will still be useful for decades to come, even at 50% capacity after 20 years of use. Then they're over 90% recyclable.

According to Andrew Orlowski writing in the Telegraph **Given the typical global fuel generation mix, a typical EV driver will need to drive 92,000 miles to reach CO2 emission parity with the petrol-powered equivalent, while a driver in the EU, where the energy mix contains more nuclear and renewables, some 52,000 miles. And that’s without changing the battery once. This isn’t well known amongst pious EV owners, for whom the car is a kind of face mask on wheels.**

Ergates

Grey_Critic said:

Petriix said:

surfer91919 said:

When you balance out embodied carbon and running emissions it seems to that the greenest car is the one you're driving now.

That's objectively untrue. The carbon footprint of manufacturing a complete EV will be totally offset within 50k miles of not burning fossil fuels (not to mention mining, transporting and refining them). But that's also ignoring the fact that the batteries aren't consumed during the life of the EV and will still be useful for decades to come, even at 50% capacity after 20 years of use. Then they're over 90% recyclable.

Petriix said:

surfer91919 said:

When you balance out embodied carbon and running emissions it seems to that the greenest car is the one you're driving now.

That's objectively untrue. The carbon footprint of manufacturing a complete EV will be totally offset within 50k miles of not burning fossil fuels (not to mention mining, transporting and refining them). But that's also ignoring the fact that the batteries aren't consumed during the life of the EV and will still be useful for decades to come, even at 50% capacity after 20 years of use. Then they're over 90% recyclable.

According to Andrew Orlowski writing in the Telegraph **Given the typical global fuel generation mix, a typical EV driver will need to drive 92,000 miles to reach CO2 emission parity with the petrol-powered equivalent, while a driver in the EU, where the energy mix contains more nuclear and renewables, some 52,000 miles. And that’s without changing the battery once. This isn’t well known amongst pious EV owners, for whom the car is a kind of face mask on wheels.**

Given that the people on this forum are, for the most part, UK based which, for the purposes of "energy mix" would come under the EU banner - his figure of 52k is more or less the same as the 50k you seem to be trying to dispute.  No?

It's interesting that whilst writing in the Telegraph, a newpaper written in the UK and mainly read by people in the UK he'd lead with the 92k mile figure - for people *not* living in the UK.  I wonder why he might have done that, given it's very obviously misleading.  If I was a cynical person, I might think that he intended to mislead his readers.

I'd also be interested in where he got the 92k from (I expect he's sitting on it tbh) given that's higher than *any* other source I've seen.

"And that’s without changing the battery once" is nonsense - how many EVs need to change the battery within 52k miles?  (or even 92k miles).  Answer:  Very few.   How many ICE vehicles need a new engine within the same timeframe?

Also the "for whom the car is a kind of face mask on wheels" comment on the end demonstrates the writer's obvious bias and shows he's kind of an idiot.  It's the kind of stupid thing people say when they want to indicate you can safely dismiss their opinions on anything and everything.

Petriix

Grey_Critic said:

Petriix said:

surfer91919 said:

When you balance out embodied carbon and running emissions it seems to that the greenest car is the one you're driving now.

That's objectively untrue. The carbon footprint of manufacturing a complete EV will be totally offset within 50k miles of not burning fossil fuels (not to mention mining, transporting and refining them). But that's also ignoring the fact that the batteries aren't consumed during the life of the EV and will still be useful for decades to come, even at 50% capacity after 20 years of use. Then they're over 90% recyclable.

Petriix said:

surfer91919 said:

When you balance out embodied carbon and running emissions it seems to that the greenest car is the one you're driving now.

That's objectively untrue. The carbon footprint of manufacturing a complete EV will be totally offset within 50k miles of not burning fossil fuels (not to mention mining, transporting and refining them). But that's also ignoring the fact that the batteries aren't consumed during the life of the EV and will still be useful for decades to come, even at 50% capacity after 20 years of use. Then they're over 90% recyclable.

According to Andrew Orlowski writing in the Telegraph **Given the typical global fuel generation mix, a typical EV driver will need to drive 92,000 miles to reach CO2 emission parity with the petrol-powered equivalent, while a driver in the EU, where the energy mix contains more nuclear and renewables, some 52,000 miles. And that’s without changing the battery once. This isn’t well known amongst pious EV owners, for whom the car is a kind of face mask on wheels.**

That's complete nonsense based on wildly exaggerated figures...

The average grid CO2 emissions last year were around 200g per kWh. Allowing for some charging losses that's about 35g per km for a typical EV. 

Real world CO2 emissions from ICE vehicles are typically 30-50% worse than the WLTP figures so an average of 160g per km is a generous guess for the tailpipe. Then add another 30g for the well to pump part.

That's a deficit of 155g per km (on average) or 250g per mile. So 1 tonne of CO2 for every 4,000 miles.

Depending on where it's manufactured, an EV battery causes between 500 and 1000kg of CO2 for every 10kWh of capacity. So let's call it 4 tonnes of CO2 for your average 50kWh EV.

Then you need to consider the parts that an EV doesn't have: an engine, clutch, gearbox, exhaust, water pump, timing belt, fuel tank etc. And of course the replacement of such parts as routine maintenance. Hard to estimate but call it 1 tonne of CO2.

So the additional CO2 from manufacturing an EV will be offset after just 12,000 miles. Over its 200,000 mile life, the EV will save 50 tonnes of CO2 vs burning fossil fuels for the same distance. And, while the fossil fuels are literally burnt away, the precious metals in the EV battery are still available for reuse in lower power applications (like home energy storage) and recycling.