Excel Parking and Debt Recovery - help

Snakes_Belly

Have you received their WS yet? 

Did they include a VRN list?  

Snakes_Belly

If their rep starts kicking off you should question why so many people in Lichfield have been ticketed and the failure of Excel to investigate the matter.  

Snakes_Belly

What I think is an idea is to think about the weakest points of your claim and how you can get over them.

The rep may say that you are "getting on the bandwagon". I would come back with why would you go to all this trouble of preparing all the paperwork for court etc. and involving the MP if you were "jumping on the bandwagon" It's a matter of principle something that the PPC's are short of.

In my hearing I had something that would have been difficult to defend but it was never contested by the rep. 

Adam_

KeithP said:

...and why is the claimant's name in parentheses?

Ahh good spot thank you! Didn't realise I'd done that

Adam_

Snakes_Belly said:

3. I attended the Three Spires car park on Backcester Lane, Lichfield on XXXXXX (according to the ANPR image) with the intention of spending time and money in the shopping centre. As it had been some time since I visited this car park due to the covid pandemic. I was unaware the car park was under new management having previously been operated by the council and that there were different terms and conditions and means of payment.  



4. At the time of the contravention the claimant had been operator of this car park less than 8 months and due to the abnormality of the typical order of things due to the pandemic, I would therefore contend that it makes it even more important to display appropriate and sufficient signage at the entrance to and around the car park.  The signage at the entrance was insufficient to form a contract. 


10. I was unaware that my payment had not been accepted or that  that the keypad failed to record the full VRN during the payment process. I left the car park assuming that my payment had been made and that I had complied with the terms and conditions

11. This is not an isolated incident and many other motorists have experienced similar problems with this car park and the car park opposite at Gresley Row also managed by the same operator. Even though there has been numerous similar issues at both car parks Excel Parking Services Limited have done nothing to investigate these issues but have continued to issue PCN's and aggressively chase motorists including very vulnerable people.  As no tickets were issued there was no proof of payment and many people just paid these PCN's when they started receiving threatening letters from debt collection agents.

12. I disputed this claim via email explaining I made all the best attempts to pay for a parking ticket and CCTV would be able to show me at the machine performing payment.  The claimant requested my card number to check their data, however, as stated above, it was apparent on my bank account the payment was never taken by the card issuer and I did not feel comfortable providing my card number to an aggressive ex- clamper now operating as a private car parking operator. The claimant denied my dispute and proceeded to send another Parking Charge Notice now demanding the sum of £100 for failure to pay for a parking ticket.

 13. There has been occurences where motorists using these two car parks have also been under the impression that they have paid but their card payments do not appear to have been captured by the system. I am adamant that I paid the correct parking tariff but received no ticket to evidence that I have paid. (refer to the image stating that no tickets are issued).  I also cite Jolley v Carmel Ltd [2000] 2 –EGLR -154, it was held that a party who makes reasonable endeavours to comply with contractual terms should not be penalised when unable to fully comply with those terms.  I believe that I made reasonable endeavours to comply with the claimaints terms and conditions.

13. I continued to refuse to accept liability as I don’t believe I was in the wrong but continued to receive a Letter Before Claim demanding the sum of £170.  Following this letter I again received further letters, from ELMS Legal under instruction from Excel Parking Ltd. to recover outstanding debt of £170 and again from Excel Parking Ltd. demanding the sum of £230. (At this point  you could mention that the the current state of play with the new Code of Practice with regard to debt collection charges). (You need to check this out as I am unsure of the approach at present regarding fake add on's) 


16. It is believed that these meters are solar powered and work on a 3g or 4g network. Depending on signal or battery strength depends how good or bad they work. The solar power is backed up by a battery, however the solar power in the UK does not provide sufficient energy and the power of the machine drains the battery. This has proved to be a problem with this type of parking meter even in places like San Francisco. It is likely that this is the cause of the machine failure which has caused many motorists in Lichfield to receive a PCN and in some cases several PCN's. As no tickets are issued there is no proof of payment.

Since Excel's contract has been terminated a new operator has taken over and  similar issues are occuring which would indicate that there are some problems with the supply of power to the parking meters. They may have been sited where there was inadequate sunlight.  

This is fantastic, thanks so much for rewriting those sections for me, makes a lot more sense.

I noticed you replaced quite a big section I'd put in regarding my actions after paying etc, I'm guessing you think its not relevant to put in right?

Would you say to replace exhibit AE-01 with the up to date image you've provided, i've noticed that it does actually show more signage than the original one I used but do you still think its not enough to stand?

Adam_

Snakes_Belly said:

Jolley V Carmel.  Jurisdiction	England & Wales
Court	Court of Appeal (Civil Division)
Judge	LORD JUSTICE CHADWICK
Judgment Date	10 July 2000
Judgment citation (vLex)	[2000] EWCA Civ J0710-10
Docket Number	A3/2000/2329
Date	10 July 2000

Where would you put this? As an exhibit?

Adam_

Snakes_Belly said:

Have you received their WS yet? 

Did they include a VRN list?  

I havent received their WS yet but I'm guessing its due to royal mail being on strike, I won't be sending mine through the post. It'll be sent as a PDF in an email.

I asked for SAR which they sent a while back, this has supposedly all the submission into the machine from that day, would you like me to send it?

Adam_

Snakes_Belly said:

What I think is an idea is to think about the weakest points of your claim and how you can get over them.

The rep may say that you are "getting on the bandwagon". I would come back with why would you go to all this trouble of preparing all the paperwork for court etc. and involving the MP if you were "jumping on the bandwagon" It's a matter of principle something that the PPC's are short of.

In my hearing I had something that would have been difficult to defend but it was never contested by the rep. 

So this was crossing my mind today, which part is the weakest section of my claim and how can I counter them if I start getting grilled on them.

Snakes_Belly

"So this was crossing my mind today, which part is the weakest section of my claim and how can I counter them if I start getting grilled on them."

1. There has been major issues with this car park which is a positive but they could say you have jumped on the bandwagon. See my previous comment on how to argue this.
2. There is no evidence that you have paid. You must make sure that the image stating that the machine does not give out tickets is referred to in your WS and the image included in the bundle. Also an important point is the solar power issue and the fact that many others have had a similar problem. Petition link and comments by Michael Fabricant should evidence that this is a common problem.
3. Regarding the VRN. They must produce the list however these lists are pretty meaningless. There is a copy of one of these lists online and most of the VRN's are incomplete. Fruitcake's comment "was there a classic car rally on that day". When they send their WS you must post the VRN on here for the regulars to see. 
   
4. Their WS will be full of meaningless twaddle. 
5.  It's a pay car park and you were aware of this as you had used the car park when it was operated by Lichfield Council. What you were not aware of was that Excel was now managing the car park and that the terms and conditions has changed.
   
6. When you enter the car park it is at this point you are entering into the contract. The signs at entry are insufficient to form a contract. You did however use your best endeavours to comply with their terms and conditions.
   
7. The reps that they employ are often not up to speed. Don't discuss the case with them beforehand.

Snakes_Belly

As mentioned previously I am not up to speed on how the fake add on's are being treated at the moment. These are the charges that they add on for debt collection. They were being scrapped but this is now subject to a further public consultation.