Excel Parking and Debt Recovery - help

Snakes_Belly

Some further observations.

In your defence you have not said how you paid and if you are unsure then I would be consistent in the WS. I would have only been inclined to pay by card if I had not got the change. 

Regarding payment on these car parks it was a ticketless system. They appear to have started to give receipts for card payments when they realised that card payments required a receipt however you had to request a receipt which did not show the VRN that had been input. No proof of payment was given automatically.

So many drivers just paid the PCN because they felt that they had no proof of payment. 

Regarding the VRN list. As CM says it's meaningless as its not dated and it appears to cover the Three Spires car parks. Backcester Short Stay, Backcester Long Stay and Gresley Row Short Stay. It seems short on activity for three town centre car parks. It will be interesting to see what they send in the WS.

Excel have been known to change the VRN lists to suit their narrative. It is likely to have happened at Nuneaton. This was a Gresley Row case but only heard at County Court.

In the Ambler case Excel were thought to have tampered with the VRN list. They requested an appeal which was refused.  I have posted the Ambler transcript.

The only way to evidence that a driver has paid the tariff for parking by cash is if the VRN from the ANPR matches the VRN input by the driver. This has failed so many times in these car parks that there cannot be so many drivers inputting the VRN's incorrectly.

These civil cases are decided on balance of probability. 

 
 

Snakes_Belly

  @ 1505grandad   Para 15  -  "(Since Excel's contract has been terminated a new operator has taken over) and  similar issues are occuring which would indicate that there are some problems with the supply of power to the parking metres."

Not clear about (this) because para 19 states:-

"Such are the issues at Three Spires Shopping Centre Short Stay Car Park (since Excel Parking Service Limited have taken over this site), a petition has been set up calling for the site to be returned to Lichfield District Council."

Just to clarify,

The car parks in question were owned/leased by a company who ran the Three Spires shopping precinct.The car parks were operated by the council. 

The company that ran Three Spires dispensed with the council and Excel were given the contract. That went horribly wrong and a petition was started for the car parks to revert back to being managed by the council. That has not happened and Euro took over from Excel earlier in 2022 but it's not much of an improvement. There are similar problems.

Around the time that Excel left Three Spires also became under new managment. There has been a lot of coming and going in a short space of time and it's had a bad effect on the town/city. It is a city but more like a town.

The petition is useful to mention because there are numerous posts of similar scenarios to the OP so not an isolated incident. You would not believe how many people have been affected by this. 

Adam_

Thanks to all that found the typos and errors, I've amended those now, i've added a section on the lack of evidence in the VRN list and added the Excel v Ambler case too

Adam_

Snakes_Belly said:

Some further observations.

In your defence you have not said how you paid and if you are unsure then I would be consistent in the WS. I would have only been inclined to pay by card if I had not got the change. 

Regarding payment on these car parks it was a ticketless system. They appear to have started to give receipts for card payments when they realised that card payments required a receipt however you had to request a receipt which did not show the VRN that had been input. No proof of payment was given automatically.

So many drivers just paid the PCN because they felt that they had no proof of payment. 

Regarding the VRN list. As CM says it's meaningless as its not dated and it appears to cover the Three Spires car parks. Backcester Short Stay, Backcester Long Stay and Gresley Row Short Stay. It seems short on activity for three town centre car parks. It will be interesting to see what they send in the WS.

Excel have been known to change the VRN lists to suit their narrative. It is likely to have happened at Nuneaton. This was a Gresley Row case but only heard at County Court.

In the Ambler case Excel were thought to have tampered with the VRN list. They requested an appeal which was refused.  I have posted the Ambler transcript.

The only way to evidence that a driver has paid the tariff for parking by cash is if the VRN from the ANPR matches the VRN input by the driver. This has failed so many times in these car parks that there cannot be so many drivers inputting the VRN's incorrectly.

These civil cases are decided on balance of probability. 

 
 

Well this is the last thing I wanted to still be working on christmas eve lol but needs to be done so sorry for bothering you today.

I've now added in that I paid by contactless payment, I know I would've used that method because I never carry cash and its rare I'll ever use my pin number when I'm out.

I've added that section that CM has put in now as I think thats quite a prominent piece if they attempt to use the VRN list in their WS.

I'll post V3 of my WS in the next comment, because my deadline is due for before the 27th I'll be emailing this across today.

Adam_

Witness Statement V3

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I0ZggbdOB_NNPwnhmgYB5IBWFLnrkB5iL6VkQmddUOU/edit?usp=sharing

1505grandad

Check numbering of exhibits in content list and alter numbers in WS accordingly.

What name are you stating as claimant on the heading of the WS?

You keep referring to the claimant as "Excel Parking Ltd"

If it comes to a "Balance of Probability" decision by the Judge and he/she decides that if you cannot refer to the correct claimant's name - under a SoT - as stated on the claim form, I would suggest that it is possible the Judge will not have 100% faith in your other statements. 

Entry from IPC AoS members list:- 

Excel Parking Services Ltd (Trading As Excel Parking Services Ltd)

Your choice of course but as already suggested why not just refer to them as "Claimant".

Coupon-mad

Adam_ said:

Witness Statement V3

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I0ZggbdOB_NNPwnhmgYB5IBWFLnrkB5iL6VkQmddUOU/edit?usp=sharing

Change # 25 to 'intended to be banned'.

Add in the paragraph from the template defence that points out the Judicial Reviews by this rogue industry and the fact the new statutory Code of Practice is stalled, and why Judges should still heed the intention of the will of Parliament.

Remove 'clearly' from here:

Clearly showing the solar-powered ticket machines and signage stating the machines are ticketless.

Snakes_Belly

I would send  your WS off now by email when you have made the final changes as there are several bank holidays. I would ask for a confirmation that the email has been received and read.

When Excel send their WS I think that the VRN list needs to be compared with what they sent in the SAR.  Below is the list from the Nuneaton case. The transgression took place on Gresley Row so the machine number 173 A is definitely on Gresley Row.   Gresley Row is the smaller car park and the VRN below only covers an hour and a half of activity of machine 173A. When you compare below with the information from the SAR then there does not seem much activity from the four machines over a longer time period.  

Machine 173A Gresley Row short stay from  10.57 to 12.31. A period of 1 hour 34 mins and contains 23 transactions.

Snakes_Belly

The VRN list from Excel's SAR is for two hours and includes four machines across three car parks and contains 38 transactions. I would have thought that there would have been more activity on Backcester Lane 373B and 373C machines. Very little activity on the second machine on Backcester Lane over two hours just two transactions. Given the time of day unlikely to be much activity on 373D. 

25/10/2021 15:02:12 Three Spires Short Stay 373A AK***ZD 25/10/2021 16:02

25/10/2021 15:03:29 Three Spires Short Stay 373A FN***KB 25/10/2021 16:03

25/10/2021 15:07:02 Three Spires Short Stay 373B BJ***TK 25/10/2021 16:07

25/10/2021 15:08:52 Three Spires Short Stay 373A YD***EK 25/10/2021 16:08

25/10/2021 15:11:20 Three Spires Short Stay 373B BV***RX 25/10/2021 18:31

25/10/2021 15:12:12 Three Spires Short Stay 373B DC***WK 25/10/2021 16:12

25/10/2021 15:16:06 Three Spires Short Stay 373B W2***MY 25/10/2021 16:16

25/10/2021 15:24:16 Three Spires Short Stay 373A BV***WW 25/10/2021 16:24

25/10/2021 15:24:38 Three Spires Short Stay 373B BJ***XA 25/10/2021 17:24

25/10/2021 15:25:08 Three Spires Short Stay 373A L2***OL 25/10/2021 16:25

25/10/2021 15:30:10 Three Spires Short Stay 373B VE***02 25/10/2021 16:30

25/10/2021 15:31:28 Three Spires Short Stay 373A BT***ZC 25/10/2021 16:31

25/10/2021 15:32:58 Three Spires Short Stay 373A CF***HW 25/10/2021 16:32

25/10/2021 15:35:51 Three Spires Short Stay 373C D6***JG 25/10/2021 16:35

25/10/2021 15:39:24 Three Spires Short Stay 373A FE***UT 25/10/2021 16:39

25/10/2021 15:40:07 Three Spires Short Stay 373B T6***YR 25/10/2021 17:40

25/10/2021 15:42:36 Three Spires Short Stay 373A MP***JP 25/10/2021 16:42

25/10/2021 15:43:08 Three Spires Short Stay 373A MT***TN 25/10/2021 16:43

25/10/2021 15:46:48 Three Spires Long Stay 373D MV***70 25/10/2021 18:30

25/10/2021 15:49:11 Three Spires Short Stay 373B YB***YR 25/10/2021 16:49

25/10/2021 15:50:00 Three Spires Short Stay 373B YP***EZ 25/10/2021 16:50

25/10/2021 15:51:45 Three Spires Short Stay 373B GU***XD 25/10/2021 16:51

25/10/2021 15:56:04 Three Spires Short Stay 373A FL***LY 25/10/2021 17:56

25/10/2021 15:56:53 Three Spires Short Stay 373A BG***TE 25/10/2021 16:56

25/10/2021 16:01:28 Three Spires Short Stay 373B R7***LP 25/10/2021 17:01

25/10/2021 16:01:29 Three Spires Short Stay 373A MK***FJ 25/10/2021 17:01

25/10/2021 16:04:29 Three Spires Short Stay 373B RO***OT 25/10/2021 17:04

25/10/2021 16:18:22 Three Spires Short Stay 373A BD***UJ 25/10/2021 17:18

25/10/2021 16:20:11 Three Spires Short Stay 373A J4***XN 25/10/2021 17:20

25/10/2021 16:20:43 Three Spires Short Stay 373B CP***UY 25/10/2021 18:20

25/10/2021 16:21:21 Three Spires Short Stay 373A LP***KG 25/10/2021 17:21

25/10/2021 16:25:39 Three Spires Short Stay 373A T9***DS 25/10/2021 17:25

25/10/2021 16:28:28 Three Spires Short Stay 373B KO***KV 25/10/2021 17:28

25/10/2021 16:33:08 Three Spires Short Stay 373C E1***DU 25/10/2021 17:33

25/10/2021 16:36:48 Three Spires Short Stay 373A CE***DK 25/10/2021 17:36

25/10/2021 16:45:45 Three Spires Short Stay 373B EE***KE 25/10/2021 18:30

25/10/2021 16:46:59 Three Spires Short Stay 373B MV***OX 25/10/2021 17:46

25/10/2021 17:00:41 Three Spires Short Stay 373B BV***HH 25/10/2021 18:00

Adam_

1505grandad said:

Check numbering of exhibits in content list and alter numbers in WS accordingly.

What name are you stating as claimant on the heading of the WS?

You keep referring to the claimant as "Excel Parking Ltd"

If it comes to a "Balance of Probability" decision by the Judge and he/she decides that if you cannot refer to the correct claimant's name - under a SoT - as stated on the claim form, I would suggest that it is possible the Judge will not have 100% faith in your other statements. 

Entry from IPC AoS members list:- 

Excel Parking Services Ltd (Trading As Excel Parking Services Ltd)

Your choice of course but as already suggested why not just refer to them as "Claimant".

Thank you! I hadn't spotted how many times I'd mentioned Excel in the WS. I thought I'd changed them all to claimant.

I havent put the claimant in the heading but they're on the first page after the content page, would that be fine or do they need to be in the heading too?