Count Court appearance soon

KeithP

Greenhaze said:

Do I have to also email all of my exhibits to the (C) solicitor in my bundle?

3) Can I email my bundle or does it have to be printed and handed to the claimant and the court?

Email is fine and probably better. Email to both court and legal reps. 

Yes. Everything you intend to rely on. Including of course your Summary Costs Assessment.

Greenhaze

Just realised since I already have the (C) WS can I refute aspect of it in my WS or only in my Skeleton? 

Redx

I think that @bargepole has explained what should be in a WS and the possible uses of a skeleton

Afaik a skeleton is a bullet point aide memoire to narrow the issues , not somewhere to wax lyrical with new arguments etc , many people don't bother with one , relying on the defence and WS plus summary costs assessment ( but maybe have a short bullet point list to hand to remind yourself of the main issues )

Frankly , I was surprised to see questions about a skeleton , not seen any for a very long time on here

Jenni_D

I wonder if the OP meant a Supplementary WS rather than a Skeleton?

As to the question - if you have their WS and you still have time to file and serve your own, then yes - you can pull apart errors in their WS in your own WS.

Greenhaze

The reason I mentioned the Skelton argument Is because it's mentioned on a few times on threads about the purpose of it for court as it helps the judge see the key facts without getting to bogged down in the WS. But may be the skeleton not so essential for county court. 

Redx

Greenhaze said:

The reason I mentioned the Skelton argument Is because it's mentioned on a few times on threads about the purpose of it for court as it helps the judge see the key facts without getting to bogged down in the WS. But may be the skeleton not so essential for county court. 

Yes , sounds correct , so doesn't contain any extra arguments or transcripts etc , just a concise set of points that repeat what is already in the defence and WS , not in addition to , but a short concise précis of the main issues , the details of which can be found in the defence plus WS plus Exhibits

It's not essential at all , but can help

95Rollers

Had a read of their WS which seems like a copy and paste of many others I've seen.

Off the top of my head - things I would challenge are:

1) Double Recovery - they say that "additional costs" are added. This is a bounty they keep if they collect the money for the parking firm who they give the original value.  The matter is at the Claim stage so why are they taking an extra £60/70 claim - the debt collectors failed to collect so why is their add-on "admin/debt collection" fee being claimed?!?  They failed and had a "No Win/ No Fee" agreement with the Parking Firms where the parking firm would get £100 and they'd keep their £60 admin fee. So i'd challenge that along with the usual examples of double recovery/ abuse of process - Excel vs Wilkinson and lots of other judgments where cases have been struck out on this basis:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6103933/abuse-of-process-thread-part-2

A selection of Judgment forms:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://us.v-cdn.net/6031891/uploads/editor/23/ywcts4vrjm85.pdf&psig=AOvVaw0rtUh2jNC0LJvyqL4VUfYe&ust=1643503302185000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAkQjhxqFwoTCOCO0Ibd1fUCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAk

Plus the Beavis case is worth drawing a comparison against - they all quote Beavis case, but this and most parking charge scenarios are completely different to that unique set of circumstances.

2) It mentions their signs. There is no photographs so we cannot assist with this.  BUT I'd suggest maybe getting onto Google Street View and going back to the date of parking event and evidence that signs were not viewable nor readable from a vehicle when entering.  Have a look at IPC's CoP for that date section on sign regulations and then see if the signs there met the CoP criteria for a carpark of that ilk. Was it night? Were they illuminated or clean? etc etc. You obviously missed them for a reason so explain that you couldn't see them - were vehicles blocking your view? etc etc.  Include pictures of your route and PoV from that time so the judge can see what you saw (or didn't in this case).

I'm sure there is other stuff. But I'm tired and cannot think anymore.  

Le_Kirk

The second (huge) link does not work, it wants to redirect to another page!

Coupon-mad

Greenhaze said:

Just realised since I already have the (C) WS can I refute aspect of it in my WS or only in my Skeleton? 

Yes.  That's a really old and tired WS template they've used.  Search the forum for WS rebuttals over the years, of Alder v Moore!

Whether you do a skelly or not (one or 2 pages of bullet point law, max!) make sure you use as an authority, Jopson v Homeguard and also ParkingEye v Somerfield paras 418-429, given they've quoted from the latter, yet ignored the fact it shows an exaggerated 'admin fee' can't be added!

Also look at the duration between photos - 3 minutes?

Argument re IPC CoP: No grace period to unload/escort a passenger indoors (can't recall which you said but it was a situation supported by Jopson).

You are reading lots of threads like yours we assume?  We read every single one daily, including:

 https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6325567/ws-stage-quick-question#latest

Exactly like your case!

Pm them for info about what they put and what the Judge said, and even things like their claim number and name of Judge/court, to quote.  Not a precedent but close to your case arguments and likely to help you focus.

Greenhaze

Thank you coupon mad, I read the paragraphs 418 -429 of PE vs Somerfield, which is also echoed by DDJ Jackson in Excel v Wikinson case.

Since (C) has brought up somerfield would be wise to comment on that case since they brought it up but failed to mention the relevant facts of that case or just use the Wilkinson case since I've already made reference to it in my WS?

Also can I mention other case law in my WS that wasn't in my Defence as long as fits the relevant argument? 

Lastly how to work out cost is there any examples on here as I've wasted months reading in preparation for CC instead of spending time with kids?