Pcn's sent out by Dcb Legal

Tapluk3

Oh i really do not understand what that means coupon-mad, i have been looking but cannot see pofa 2912 or what schedule 4 is, sorry about that, could you direct me where i can see what schedule 4 means please?

Umkomaas

Tapluk3 said:

Oh i really do not understand what that means coupon-mad, i have been looking but cannot see pofa 2912 or what schedule 4 is, sorry about that, could you direct me where i can see what schedule 4 means please?

Coupon is just 900 years out, try PoFA 2012. 😄

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Tapluk3

All i can really explain to a judge is, at the time the tickets were issued, the 08/08/2016 & 19/09/2016 we were touring in our campervan in Norfolk from mid july 2016 to 1st. Oct.2016. As i would assume any normal person would do, the 2 sets of keys were left at our flat for the car,  my son came there with friends several times, as did my daughter and her friends, they had bbq's and parties whilst we were away, upstairs neighbours tending to our cat and checking flat was safe in the 10 weeks we were away,  that is the truth and if the judge does not believe that then we are going to be found guilty, we have 100% proof we were away for 10 weeks with bank statements and copies of holiday bookings to show the judge, i am not trying to cover anything to hide who the driver was, i 100% do not know as nobody mentioned they used the car at the said times 5 and a half years ago

Redx

Tapluk3 said:

All i can really explain to a judge is, at the time the tickets were issued, the 08/08/2016 & 19/09/2016 we were touring in our campervan in Norfolk from mid july 2016 to 1st. Oct.2016. As i would assume any normal person would do, the 2 sets of keys were left at our flat for the car,  my son came there with friends several times, as did my daughter and her friends, they had bbq's and parties whilst we were away, upstairs neighbours tending to our cat and checking flat was safe in the 10 weeks we were away,  that is the truth and if the judge does not believe that then we are going to be found guilty, we have 100% proof we were away for 10 weeks with bank statements and copies of holiday bookings to show the judge, i am not trying to cover anything to hide who the driver was, i 100% do not know as nobody mentioned they used the car at the said times 5 and a half years ago

Fair comments , But !!

You also need to know why you as a keeper are not liable under a 9 year old law named POFA , from 2012 , so it POFA 2012 ( unfortunate typo by coupon mad , but crucial )

You are or were the keeper , probably the registered keeper , so regardless of who was driving , it's also about , are you liable under the law as a keeper ? The answer is either yes or no 

If you say no ( as you should ) you should know why , that law either makes you liable in law , or it doesn't , even if you were in Timbuktu for several months , because your vehicle remained in the UK and was driven and allegedly was in breach of a contract , that the unknown driver may be responsible for

Let us assume that it doesn't , you need to understand why it doesn't apply in this case ( irrespective of who was driving , irrespective of if you know who was , or don't know , irrespective of if you were hundreds or thousands of miles away for ten weeks ! )

So look up the law named POFA , look at schedule 4 , research what coupon mad inferred , despite the typo 😁😁👍👍👍👍

Coupon-mad

if the judge does not believe that then we are going to be found guilty,

There is no "found guilty".  This isn't a criminal trial, it's just a county court hearing (by phone, probably) and a bit like Judge Rinder:

Parking firm's hired legal rep:  "Oi she owes us money".

You: "Oh no I don't, and this is why not".

And the 'why not' is NOT just that you were abroad.   You or your lay rep MUST be able to point the Judge to why 'keeper liability' doesn't apply.

Show us the Notice to Keeper (postal PCN).

Tapluk3

This is one of 2 ukpc sent me when i requested a sar

Tapluk3

I have just seen on the pofa pages it says, the maximum sum that may be recovered from the KEEPER is the amount specified on the notice to keeper, is that correct please as you know i admit my wife was the keeper, not the driver, it states £100 on each pcn, and they are asking for £571.72, also i am just looking to find faults with ukpc  (though i doubt they make many) on the notice to keeper i see no discount offered, though i expect it will say was out of time. What i do not understand is, i did not receive any notice of pcns at all until  12th. October 2021, yet lived at address they say pcns were sent to from 2014 to 2019 and current address from 2019 to present, why wait 5 years 4 months to contact me? I know they have 6 years to chase you but just seems strange, now thinking as we go through things, if, and i say if, it was my neighbours who used the car, they were looking after the flat for us, not living in it, they were upstairs, we know the boyfriend had family and friends in Essex, and were collecting our post as only had outside letterbox as flat was originally a shop and our landlords owned the shop and run it and downsized the shop and turned into a large flat, hence letterbox out front in shop, no letterbox in flat. As we look into things trying to sort this out it seems " The plot deepens"  and seems we are clutching at straws, i have told the truth, i understand what redx says about keeper liability and thinking it will all go against my wife. One more thing 1 of the photos ukpc sent shows the car parked where they say ticket was issued, on the dash is a note saying about waiting for permit to come and if any problem to contact, then a house number, i will delete the house number (now i know how to do it) and post on here soon, I am going to write a letter to the occupier of the house asking if they lived there in 2016, show them a photo ukpc sent me of car parked there and if they knew who the driver was, if so would it be possible to pass the details onto me, i will enclose a self addressed envelope with a nice polite letter,fingers crossed it could put an end to this fiasco,  a longshot i know but have to keep trying, scaring us now as pointed out proving to judge keeper liability, my wife was the keeper!!!

Tapluk3

Ukpc sent this when i asked for SAR, one of the photos, it was on the dashboard in the car, i have removed the address

Tapluk3

Hi Coupon-mad, thankyou for your reply, i have read the Pofa and section 4, bit confused as you know this is all new to me and being elderly not so easy to take in, can i just ask if you have any suggestions how i go about convincing the judge then please? All i can say, yes i was the keeper, so do you think i am liable then? All i can say in my defence, i was the keeper, i was not the driver and i do not know who was, i do not know what else to say or do, thankyou

Tapluk3

Could anyone advise me also please, i am at the stage of filling in form N180, has to be returned by 31st. January, Dcb legal are demanding £571.72 for the 2 pcns they say i owe them, if the court hearing goes against me, what does anyone think the likely total cost could be? I am assuming there will be court costs added, i do not even have the £571 to pay them let alone even more, Thankyou