Have I been "blacklisted" from a job? Seeking reference for a new one (police)

qwertyK

Jude57 said:

@qwertyK I'm glad you've taken my first post in the spirit it was intended.

I see @lcc86 has confirmed that their relative was able to join even after what must have been a serious mental health issue. If antidepressants stabilise your mood, I can't see why that would be a bar to joining but different forces have different requirements so it's not a sure thing either way. I can say that any mental health issue is likely to be a bar to becoming a CFO and some other sensitive roles.

As to the physical requirements of being a detective, these can be just as demanding as for uniformed officers. Certainly, sitting on observations for many hours is a regular feature, and you're going to be limited in terms of how often you can change position. When I say the whole shift, I mean eight hours sitting in one position. If I was your colleague, I'd need to be sure you're able to physically do that, followed by an intense foot chase then subdue a desperate suspect without leaving me alone in the firing line as it were.

From the force perspective, they will look at what you are capable of doing, physically, at the moment. They'll want to be as sure as they can be that you won't be a danger to yourself or others or a law suit waiting to happen if you further damage your spine on duty. Every long serving officer I've known has a knackered back, knees or both! It's about your wellbeing as much as anything else.

That saying about police officers being bullied at school is actually an insult because it goes on to say that it's the reason they joined, to be bullies themselves. I wouldn't recommend using it if you get an interview. On the other hand, being able to deal calmly with abuse without it affecting your professional conduct despite provocation is a key skill. I also agree that attention to detail and retention of key facts are vital. When giving evidence under oath in court you can refer to your notebook but if you don't remember something important, the defendant's solicitor or barrister will make you look incompetent or evasive, neither of which you want. 

Yeah I wouldn't and I haven't...I've already had my interviews literally all I've got left is medical and vetting

qwertyK

lcc86 said:

I don't mean to cause offence but if you don't remember signing a contract and then don't think you should have to work a notice period (every job has a notice period) then are you really suited to police work where attention to detail and the law is key?

I can only speak anecdotally but a relative of mine just joined the police having previously been sectioned as a teen and it hasn't held her back so hopefully you being on antidepressants won't be an issue. Your back may be another matter, although you say it doesn't affect you, occupational health won't just be looking at how it affects you now but how it could affect you in future given it could potentially affect your ability to do your job if it worsens or if you were to get injured etc. But you can only wait and see what they say.

insightful, thank you...hopefully attitudes have changed. The Home office advice (from 2004) recommend candidates arent accepted if they havent been off medication for at least 2 years...which seems very archaic considering 17% of the UK is on them. I've read a few stories (in the national press) about people who were rejected for being on them, but doing a little detective work I found out that the two forces (police scotland + met police) use the same private OH provider - optima. My force doesn't, it uses a small local one so it may be different.

First point - I honestly would have remembered signing a contract. I cannot find oen in my email inbox either. Most likely I suspect they would have emailed me or maybe my esignature during the recruitment process was enough for thios.

And as for notice periods...as far as I'm aware most companies won't actually do anything if you leave without? Unless they'll struggle to replace you. I've only had four or so jobs, all of which are part time, I'm 18 I'm not an expert at this but I will bear it mind for the future. I just knew in my other job that I do right now I was told you can leave without notice in the first month - silly me I assumed that would be the same for any other job. Point taken, in all honesty I didn't really want to take on the job anyway but my parents pushed me into it against my judgement. I can assure you that's not the case with the police and they are supportive of me in it.

I didn't see anything on the list of medical conditions about my condition. It's quite unusual, though one of them (scoliosis) whilst wasn't listed, is actually very common, just not amongst men.

Like I said just got to wait to see what OH have to say. I've passed all the police tests and interviews .

LaHostessAvecLaMostess

qwertyK said:

So I'm 18, started what was supposedly a "part time" job (advertised as 12hrs) , and quickly didn't like it.
My manager was extremely unprofessional, blatantly rude, and hostile towards me.
She had no consideration for the fact I was also working a second job in the evenings and gave me as little as half an hour between the two (meaning I was effectively doing a 9 hour day with a 15 minute break - illegal).

She should have absolutely no consideration for your second job.  In fact, she should probably have fired you for not being able to juggle the two.

The fact that you only had a 15-minute break between the two jobs is YOUR problem, not hers.  If you were working 9 hours a day for HER then she should have made sure you got a break.  But you were not, so it's not HER problem.

I suspect you need to grow up, and understand that you don't have a right to a job.

LaHostessAvecLaMostess

qwertyK said:

Jude57 said:

@qwertyK I'm glad you've taken my first post in the spirit it was intended.

I see @lcc86 has confirmed that their relative was able to join even after what must have been a serious mental health issue. If antidepressants stabilise your mood, I can't see why that would be a bar to joining but different forces have different requirements so it's not a sure thing either way. I can say that any mental health issue is likely to be a bar to becoming a CFO and some other sensitive roles.

As to the physical requirements of being a detective, these can be just as demanding as for uniformed officers. Certainly, sitting on observations for many hours is a regular feature, and you're going to be limited in terms of how often you can change position. When I say the whole shift, I mean eight hours sitting in one position. If I was your colleague, I'd need to be sure you're able to physically do that, followed by an intense foot chase then subdue a desperate suspect without leaving me alone in the firing line as it were.

From the force perspective, they will look at what you are capable of doing, physically, at the moment. They'll want to be as sure as they can be that you won't be a danger to yourself or others or a law suit waiting to happen if you further damage your spine on duty. Every long serving officer I've known has a knackered back, knees or both! It's about your wellbeing as much as anything else.

That saying about police officers being bullied at school is actually an insult because it goes on to say that it's the reason they joined, to be bullies themselves. I wouldn't recommend using it if you get an interview. On the other hand, being able to deal calmly with abuse without it affecting your professional conduct despite provocation is a key skill. I also agree that attention to detail and retention of key facts are vital. When giving evidence under oath in court you can refer to your notebook but if you don't remember something important, the defendant's solicitor or barrister will make you look incompetent or evasive, neither of which you want. 

Yeah I wouldn't and I haven't...I've already had my interviews literally all I've got left is medical and vetting

And what do you think vetting is going to entail?

LaHostessAvecLaMostess

said:

I don't mean to cause offence but if you don't remember signing a contract and then don't think you should have to work a notice period (every job has a notice period) then are you really suited to police work where attention to detail and the law is key?

I can only speak anecdotally but a relative of mine just joined the police having previously been sectioned as a teen and it hasn't held her back so hopefully you being on antidepressants won't be an issue. Your back may be another matter, although you say it doesn't affect you, occupational health won't just be looking at how it affects you now but how it could affect you in future given it could potentially affect your ability to do your job if it worsens or if you were to get injured etc. But you can only wait and see what they say.

insightful, thank you...hopefully attitudes have changed. The Home office advice (from 2004) recommend candidates arent accepted if they havent been off medication for at least 2 years...which seems very archaic considering 17% of the UK is on them. I've read a few stories (in the national press) about people who were rejected for being on them, but doing a little detective work I found out that the two forces (police scotland + met police) use the same private OH provider - optima. My force doesn't, it uses a small local one so it may be different.

First point - I honestly would have remembered signing a contract. I cannot find oen in my email inbox either. Most likely I suspect they would have emailed me or maybe my esignature during the recruitment process was enough for thios.

And as for notice periods...as far as I'm aware most companies won't actually do anything if you leave without? Unless they'll struggle to replace you. I've only had four or so jobs, all of which are part time, I'm 18 I'm not an expert at this but I will bear it mind for the future. I just knew in my other job that I do right now I was told you can leave without notice in the first month - silly me I assumed that would be the same for any other job. Point taken, in all honesty I didn't really want to take on the job anyway but my parents pushed me into it against my judgement. I can assure you that's not the case with the police and they are supportive of me in it.

I didn't see anything on the list of medical conditions about my condition. It's quite unusual, though one of them (scoliosis) whilst wasn't listed, is actually very common, just not amongst men.

Like I said just got to wait to see what OH have to say. I've passed all the police tests and interviews .

18 and "only" had 4 jobs!

 

If they let muppets like you into the force it's a very telling representation of how far the Police force in the UK has fallen. And I didn't hold them in high regard before this post.

Own_Worst_Enermy

qwertyK said

And as for notice periods...as far as I'm aware most companies won't actually do anything if you leave without? Unless they'll struggle to replace you. I've only had four or so jobs, all of which are part time, I'm 18 I'm not an expert at this but I will bear it mind for the future. I just knew in my other job that I do right now I was told you can leave without notice in the first month - silly me I assumed that would be the same for any other job. 

I don't know but I'm leaving a sales company, within first month, where you are targeted to make 7 sales a day.
I cried as I was called to be told I had scored enough in the interview to get the job - it wasn't tears of joy or knowing I had the right job. In hindsight, I should have said no thanks - I realise now the days of trying to see if a job shall work out are over.
Despite being old enough to know anyone who doesn't or can't sell, isn't going to remain in a sales company...
I could not get an grown up answer out of the insurance sales company of what happens if you struggle to make daily target, aside from a load of coaching which makes no sense with the sector equally heavy with compliance on calls.

My contract with a large apparent 'insurance' call centre company does have two different set of terms, one that allows you to work to notice and one that allows you to leave with immediate effect, under the following: 
"If you resign without giving notice, you will only be paid up to the last day that you actually worked."
I mean what use is someone who can't sell, isn't meeting targets and fails on call compliance to work notice, in the 'easiest role' in the org.

So seems fair enough to me. References also were not bothered with until the nearing of the first month of employment as much as people on here would whoop with delight that you can be escorted of premises and references are taken immediately............. no they are not. My own view is there must be a number of companies/organisations that get stuck now with someone they don't want to employ if going by references because they are now tied when it comes to being truthful about said such reference knowing how not easy it is to get hold of references provided.

HampshireH

It's nice to see an 18 year old on the forums keen to be working but I do think the maturity comment at the beginning does come into play.

Your outlook that retail isn't important, that it's acceptable to quit with no notice, that you still expected to be paid (despite being over paid) all show a lot of learning is needed.

As an employer I would be concerned about the comments that you have references from loads of jobs and then only had 4 or so jobs as it implies you don't hang around for long.

Good luck with the police application based on the detail you have disclosed in your posts I think the reality of the application process and the training process may be a challenge for you.

And I think you need to maybe appreciate the wider impact of your actions which will be necessary in the police.

(By this I mean you seem to think quitting with no notice is fine as you were only there a week but you fail to appreciate the time and money spent in recruiting you into that role for you to then jack it in without notice and then expect pay immediately).

But I genuinely wish you well with it.

SingleSue

qwertyK said:

NCC1701-A said:

qwertyK said:

Jillanddy said:

On a slightly different tack, I must say that I'm impressed that the police are recruiting 18 year old disabled employees. Round here someone off that age and medical background would never get a look in.  Some forces are obviously much more forward looking than others.  

I’m not fully disabled . I have scoliosis which wouldn’t stop me from being a police officer. Desk work would actually be worse for me especially if it involved sitting down for a long time .

also 18 is the minimum age to join so there’s no reason as to why they wouldn’t take you. You do a degree apprenticeship scheme now. And having a disability (the one that  affects me more, autism), can actually mean you offer something different to the role 

Have you done any research into what being a police officer means day to day?  Were you a police cadet (if they still do them), Spent any time as a special Constable? Read any blogs?  

Sitting at a desk filling out online forms is a big part of the job.  Sitting on benches in court.  Climbing over walls. As is dealing with very unpleasant people who do not want to talk to you and do not care about your back or whether they need to talk nicely to you.

If you couldn't cope with a week in retail you are going to be in for a very big surprise.  

Also lying, either overtly or by omission on the application form does not bode well.

NCC1701-A said:

qwertyK said:

Jillanddy said:

On a slightly different tack, I must say that I'm impressed that the police are recruiting 18 year old disabled employees. Round here someone off that age and medical background would never get a look in.  Some forces are obviously much more forward looking than others.  

I’m not fully disabled . I have scoliosis which wouldn’t stop me from being a police officer. Desk work would actually be worse for me especially if it involved sitting down for a long time .

also 18 is the minimum age to join so there’s no reason as to why they wouldn’t take you. You do a degree apprenticeship scheme now. And having a disability (the one that  affects me more, autism), can actually mean you offer something different to the role 

Have you done any research into what being a police officer means day to day?  Were you a police cadet (if they still do them), Spent any time as a special Constable? Read any blogs?  

Sitting at a desk filling out online forms is a big part of the job.  Sitting on benches in court.  Climbing over walls. As is dealing with very unpleasant people who do not want to talk to you and do not care about your back or whether they need to talk nicely to you.

If you couldn't cope with a week in retail you are going to be in for a very big surprise.  

Also lying, either overtly or by omission on the application form does not bode well.

I think judging someone's character is a very difficult task to do behind a computer screen. You were 18 once. We've all quit jobs we don't like. I stood up to a boss who was a bully, and didn't stay somewhere where I'd only be unhappy. In my view, that is commendable. I don't have a problem with authority, in fact I actualyl like structure and ranks, but the lack of professionalism my boss showed towards me was very shocking...

We may all have quit jobs we haven't liked in the past but most of us do give notice first.

I have only quit one job in my life but I gave the one month notice first and then in the notice period, secured my next job (I would normally do it the other way around). My manager was being an absolute naughty word and I wasn't going to stand for it either but I knew that to walk out with no notice would be an incredibly silly thing to do as word does tend to get round and I'd need a reference in the future.

[Deleted User]

I await the ACAS appreciation society reprimanding posters for their rudeness.

NCC1701-A

arctic_ghost said:

I await the ACAS appreciation society reprimanding posters for their rudeness.

OP couldn't be bothered to wait for ACAS to answer so probably aren't in their good books.

qwertyK said:

MalMonroe said:

If it's Marks and Spencer, you should go over this manager's head. First of all to report her dreadful 'managing' process and how she treats people with disabilities and then to also have a discussion about your experience there and how it's made you feel.

All employers have a responsibility to ensure that disabled employees are treated with the same respect as everyone else and that their disability is taken into account when they are carrying out their duties. It would have been good if you could have complained about her at the outset, especially where your disability is concerned because you can actually take employers to Employment Tribunals for discrimination. People often end up with quite good compensation, too.

If I were you, and if you can be bothered, I'd report this matter to Acas. 

https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

But when you do contact either HR or someone superior to your manager at M&S, ask them for a reference. It doesn't have to be from the aggressive manager (who needs a lot more training herself so that she knows how to actually 'manage' and treat disabled workers).

I was going to report it to Acas at the time but gafve up trying to get through to them in the end.
My dad works for Citizens Advice as a volunteer so was helpful.
I submitted the reference to the polcie in retrospect, as I didn't have the job at the time they asked for my pre employment checks, but apparently they still need it even after when I asked today.
Didn't put the store name as presumably M&S HR can tell them that.
Just hoping it doesn't look bad as I only worked there for a week etc and also if the reference says they blocked any future applications for me to the company, but an M&S employee I spoke to says thats standard for anyone and is only an internal thing.

Disgraceful really, yes its only a part time job but its the principle of how they treated me. I'm also on the autistic spectrum which I declared in my first interview and on the application (probably should have put my back problem down too but thought they might just reject me but did raise this to the manager later), so any abruptness on my part should be attributed to that, and unlike her I was always professional and respectful. I don't think I really need a personalised reference just one that says I worked there. I have references from school and other work which will be of good nature. I also bypassed my manager at my old Iceland job partly because he doesn't work there anymore and also I feel that wouldn't be great...I was very depressed at the time which inevitably impacted my performance.

I would consider speaking to the other managers at M&S but they usually seem to close ranks and be singing from the same hymn sheet