Have I been "blacklisted" from a job? Seeking reference for a new one (police)

Grumpy_chap

General_Grant said:

Grumpy_chap said:

References are a funny thing and all I ever look for is the basic facts as to the individual's employment role, dates, etc. to see that matches with what I've been told plus I always ask "would you re-employ?" and that yes/no answer is the only thing I'm really interested in. 

When the reference is from a corporate that don't respond to our request but provide their standard, sanitised response it's usually only verification of facts that can be done as the information is usually insufficient to even infer an answer to the question "would you re-employ?"

I'd imagine that M&S will provide the sanitised reference.

If they replied "no", would you have employed?

At one time I worked for a multi-national which had the policy of never re-employing someone who had resigned because that they showed they were not satisfied with the company as an employer.   Fortunately they did include the explanation when answering the question.

Obviously "yes" is the desired answer, and I have been very fortunate on a couple of occasions to get glowing positive "yes" as well as more standard "yes".

If I received a simple "no", then that would not be likely to proceed.

A qualified "no" can still proceed, so "no, because that is our company policy on people who chose to resign but actually the individual will be an absolute asset to any employer, so that is only said with a heavy heart" is still a "yes".

I did also proceed to recruit a "no" on one occasion - it was someone who'd joined a small company as a Graduate, done a couple of years of experience and then decided to move on, the MD of the former company said "no, because he's too good for this company and we'd be restricting his future potential - he will never be able to grow sufficiently within our business."  That was a telephone reference, I called the candidate's former manager, he said he was very busy but glad to help, so I replied "I understand you are busy and thank you for sparing time to take my call, to make this quick can I simply ask whether you'd re-employ?"

It is amazing how "yes / no" answers so rarely are.

qwertyK

Jillanddy said:

qwertyK said:

Jillanddy said:

On a slightly different tack, I must say that I'm impressed that the police are recruiting 18 year old disabled employees. Round here someone off that age and medical background would never get a look in.  Some forces are obviously much more forward looking than others.  

I’m not fully disabled . I have scoliosis which wouldn’t stop me from being a police officer. Desk work would actually be worse for me especially if it involved sitting down for a long time .

also 18 is the minimum age to join so there’s no reason as to why they wouldn’t take you. You do a degree apprenticeship scheme now. And having a disability (the one that  affects me more, autism), can actually mean you offer something different to the role 

I meant what I said.  I'm disabled myself. What people have to offer differently is not always recognised,  and where I live it certainly isn't in the police force. And they don't offer apprenticeships either. Being  different is more likely to get got bullied until you leave,  and I know more than one lesson that has happened to.  So if some forces are doing things better then I hope they keep it up. 

My force (Essex) seems to have a large advertising campaign based on attracting different people, it highlighted ethnicity, religion and gender so hopefully the same applies to disability (within reason).
I don't really consider my scoliosis/scheurmanns disease a disability as such, because day to day it doesn't really affect me, certainly less than it  used to. Autism is my main "disability", aspergers but actually this is quite useful to the police. A lot of autistic people become police officers. My special interest for years was with the police and police firearms. I notice things that a lot of people don't. I had one job interview at the co op a while back (didnt get it), and they asked me what I would offer to the role. I struggled to think of something until I came to my autism and "thinking different", and he told me to use that next time. I think I used it in this M&S interview. 

qwertyK

Grumpy_chap said:

General_Grant said:

Grumpy_chap said:

References are a funny thing and all I ever look for is the basic facts as to the individual's employment role, dates, etc. to see that matches with what I've been told plus I always ask "would you re-employ?" and that yes/no answer is the only thing I'm really interested in. 

When the reference is from a corporate that don't respond to our request but provide their standard, sanitised response it's usually only verification of facts that can be done as the information is usually insufficient to even infer an answer to the question "would you re-employ?"

I'd imagine that M&S will provide the sanitised reference.

If they replied "no", would you have employed?

At one time I worked for a multi-national which had the policy of never re-employing someone who had resigned because that they showed they were not satisfied with the company as an employer.   Fortunately they did include the explanation when answering the question.

Obviously "yes" is the desired answer, and I have been very fortunate on a couple of occasions to get glowing positive "yes" as well as more standard "yes".

If I received a simple "no", then that would not be likely to proceed.

A qualified "no" can still proceed, so "no, because that is our company policy on people who chose to resign but actually the individual will be an absolute asset to any employer, so that is only said with a heavy heart" is still a "yes".

I did also proceed to recruit a "no" on one occasion - it was someone who'd joined a small company as a Graduate, done a couple of years of experience and then decided to move on, the MD of the former company said "no, because he's too good for this company and we'd be restricting his future potential - he will never be able to grow sufficiently within our business."  That was a telephone reference, I called the candidate's former manager, he said he was very busy but glad to help, so I replied "I understand you are busy and thank you for sparing time to take my call, to make this quick can I simply ask whether you'd re-employ?"

It is amazing how "yes / no" answers so rarely are.

If I'm directing them straight to HR surely they will be unable to answer whether or not they would employ me again as they haven't actually worked with me? Would they then send it to the manager or just not answer. I feel like its unfair to judge me based on a single week I worked there. Thats why I doubt how useful this would be to the police but I'm declaring it anyway just to be safe

qwertyK

Also surely if all my other references from other jobs and education are good then any bad or slightly dodgy reference from M&S can be written off? 

NCC1701-A

qwertyK said:

Jillanddy said:

On a slightly different tack, I must say that I'm impressed that the police are recruiting 18 year old disabled employees. Round here someone off that age and medical background would never get a look in.  Some forces are obviously much more forward looking than others.  

I’m not fully disabled . I have scoliosis which wouldn’t stop me from being a police officer. Desk work would actually be worse for me especially if it involved sitting down for a long time .

also 18 is the minimum age to join so there’s no reason as to why they wouldn’t take you. You do a degree apprenticeship scheme now. And having a disability (the one that  affects me more, autism), can actually mean you offer something different to the role 

Have you done any research into what being a police officer means day to day?  Were you a police cadet (if they still do them), Spent any time as a special Constable? Read any blogs?  

Sitting at a desk filling out online forms is a big part of the job.  Sitting on benches in court.  Climbing over walls. As is dealing with very unpleasant people who do not want to talk to you and do not care about your back or whether they need to talk nicely to you.

If you couldn't cope with a week in retail you are going to be in for a very big surprise.  

Also lying, either overtly or by omission on the application form does not bode well.

qwertyK

NCC1701-A said:

qwertyK said:

Jillanddy said:

On a slightly different tack, I must say that I'm impressed that the police are recruiting 18 year old disabled employees. Round here someone off that age and medical background would never get a look in.  Some forces are obviously much more forward looking than others.  

I’m not fully disabled . I have scoliosis which wouldn’t stop me from being a police officer. Desk work would actually be worse for me especially if it involved sitting down for a long time .

also 18 is the minimum age to join so there’s no reason as to why they wouldn’t take you. You do a degree apprenticeship scheme now. And having a disability (the one that  affects me more, autism), can actually mean you offer something different to the role 

Have you done any research into what being a police officer means day to day?  Were you a police cadet (if they still do them), Spent any time as a special Constable? Read any blogs?  

Sitting at a desk filling out online forms is a big part of the job.  Sitting on benches in court.  Climbing over walls. As is dealing with very unpleasant people who do not want to talk to you and do not care about your back or whether they need to talk nicely to you.

If you couldn't cope with a week in retail you are going to be in for a very big surprise.  

Also lying, either overtly or by omission on the application form does not bode well.

NCC1701-A said:

qwertyK said:

Jillanddy said:

On a slightly different tack, I must say that I'm impressed that the police are recruiting 18 year old disabled employees. Round here someone off that age and medical background would never get a look in.  Some forces are obviously much more forward looking than others.  

I’m not fully disabled . I have scoliosis which wouldn’t stop me from being a police officer. Desk work would actually be worse for me especially if it involved sitting down for a long time .

also 18 is the minimum age to join so there’s no reason as to why they wouldn’t take you. You do a degree apprenticeship scheme now. And having a disability (the one that  affects me more, autism), can actually mean you offer something different to the role 

Have you done any research into what being a police officer means day to day?  Were you a police cadet (if they still do them), Spent any time as a special Constable? Read any blogs?  

Sitting at a desk filling out online forms is a big part of the job.  Sitting on benches in court.  Climbing over walls. As is dealing with very unpleasant people who do not want to talk to you and do not care about your back or whether they need to talk nicely to you.

If you couldn't cope with a week in retail you are going to be in for a very big surprise.  

Also lying, either overtly or by omission on the application form does not bode well.

Yes I have. Literally years. I was in the army cadets there wasn't police cadets where I was. 
With all due respct this is nothing to do with "coping". I did 2 months in retail before. I hate it. Its boring, serves little to no purpose (as an autistic person this is a big problem) and has little to no reward. I'm applying for the police because I think I'll enjoy it, or at the very least, parts of it. I enjoyed virtually nothing about retail other than looking at my watch and realising it's just five minutes til I can go home. 

I haven't lied. When I filled in the reference form for pre-employment checks, they wanted jobs I had done or was doing at the time. So I didn't put M&S down because I hadn't started it yet. I literally emailed them today and gave them the M&S HR number as suggested here for a "reference".

Also again re back - day to day (which for me entails driving usually for work/delivery driving which I do 3 hours a day 3 days a week) , going to the gym, running etc, my back gives me little to no pain, usually only first thing when I wake up in the morning on some days and like I said, sitting down for prolonged periods of time in a chair that doesn't have adequate support. Have you seen a supermarket chair? It's uncofmortable even for people without back problems, and those who dont have them usually leave with one.

It's not fair to judge me based on a disability that is totally out of my control. Or judge my personality based on me quitting a job after a week. It was only going to last another week or so anyway as it was part time - it also clashed with my existing evening job so was untenable. My doctor thinks I'm fit for service, jsut have to see what OH think. 

I think judging someone's character is a very difficult task to do behind a computer screen. You were 18 once. We've all quit jobs we don't like. I stood up to a boss who was a bully, and didn't stay somewhere where I'd only be unhappy. In my view, that is commendable. I don't have a problem with authority, in fact I actualyl like structure and ranks, but the lack of professionalism my boss showed towards me was very shocking...

theoretica

qwertyK said:

Also surely if all my other references from other jobs and education are good then any bad or slightly dodgy reference from M&S can be written off? 

Sometimes you just need to wait and see how things turn out - good luck.

74jax

theoretica said:

qwertyK said:

Also surely if all my other references from other jobs and education are good then any bad or slightly dodgy reference from M&S can be written off? 

Sometimes you just need to wait and see how things turn out - good luck.

I wish you good luck too. Yes we've all been 18, and you are right, you stood up to someone... Took me till I was older than 18 to do that at work...

Structure and discipline sounds a good fit to your aspergers/autism so I hope the interview process is useful, and you get the outcome you want. 

Grumpy_chap

qwertyK said:

If I'm directing them straight to HR surely they will be unable to answer whether or not they would employ me again as they haven't actually worked with me? Would they then send it to the manager or just not answer. I feel like its unfair to judge me based on a single week I worked there. Thats why I doubt how useful this would be to the police but I'm declaring it anyway just to be safe

qwertyK said:

Also surely if all my other references from other jobs and education are good then any bad or slightly dodgy reference from M&S can be written off? 

I am sure the Police reference request will be more than the single question.

I suspect that when you left M&S, the local Store Manager (or someone local) will have needed to send a Leaver's Form to HR.
HR keep that on file and when they receive a reference request, the answers will be taken from the information in the Leaver's Form.
I also doubt the Police will put a massive weighting on one short-term seasonal role - they will look at everything in the round so if the remainder of your work history is good, nothing to worry about.

qwertyK said:

I think judging someone's character is a very difficult task to do behind a computer screen. 

You are absolutely correct, though someone in the Police will be judging your suitability, in part, on the basis of a reference from a third party...

NCC1701-A

qwertyK said:

NCC1701-A said:

qwertyK said:

Jillanddy said:

On a slightly different tack, I must say that I'm impressed that the police are recruiting 18 year old disabled employees. Round here someone off that age and medical background would never get a look in.  Some forces are obviously much more forward looking than others.  

I’m not fully disabled . I have scoliosis which wouldn’t stop me from being a police officer. Desk work would actually be worse for me especially if it involved sitting down for a long time .

also 18 is the minimum age to join so there’s no reason as to why they wouldn’t take you. You do a degree apprenticeship scheme now. And having a disability (the one that  affects me more, autism), can actually mean you offer something different to the role 

Have you done any research into what being a police officer means day to day?  Were you a police cadet (if they still do them), Spent any time as a special Constable? Read any blogs?  

Sitting at a desk filling out online forms is a big part of the job.  Sitting on benches in court.  Climbing over walls. As is dealing with very unpleasant people who do not want to talk to you and do not care about your back or whether they need to talk nicely to you.

If you couldn't cope with a week in retail you are going to be in for a very big surprise.  

Also lying, either overtly or by omission on the application form does not bode well.

NCC1701-A said:

qwertyK said:

Jillanddy said:

On a slightly different tack, I must say that I'm impressed that the police are recruiting 18 year old disabled employees. Round here someone off that age and medical background would never get a look in.  Some forces are obviously much more forward looking than others.  

I’m not fully disabled . I have scoliosis which wouldn’t stop me from being a police officer. Desk work would actually be worse for me especially if it involved sitting down for a long time .

also 18 is the minimum age to join so there’s no reason as to why they wouldn’t take you. You do a degree apprenticeship scheme now. And having a disability (the one that  affects me more, autism), can actually mean you offer something different to the role 

Have you done any research into what being a police officer means day to day?  Were you a police cadet (if they still do them), Spent any time as a special Constable? Read any blogs?  

Sitting at a desk filling out online forms is a big part of the job.  Sitting on benches in court.  Climbing over walls. As is dealing with very unpleasant people who do not want to talk to you and do not care about your back or whether they need to talk nicely to you.

If you couldn't cope with a week in retail you are going to be in for a very big surprise.  

Also lying, either overtly or by omission on the application form does not bode well.

Yes I have. Literally years. I was in the army cadets there wasn't police cadets where I was. 
With all due respct this is nothing to do with "coping". I did 2 months in retail before. I hate it. Its boring, serves little to no purpose (as an autistic person this is a big problem) and has little to no reward. I'm applying for the police because I think I'll enjoy it, or at the very least, parts of it. I enjoyed virtually nothing about retail other than looking at my watch and realising it's just five minutes til I can go home. 

I haven't lied. When I filled in the reference form for pre-employment checks, they wanted jobs I had done or was doing at the time. So I didn't put M&S down because I hadn't started it yet. I literally emailed them today and gave them the M&S HR number as suggested here for a "reference".

Also again re back - day to day (which for me entails driving usually for work/delivery driving which I do 3 hours a day 3 days a week) , going to the gym, running etc, my back gives me little to no pain, usually only first thing when I wake up in the morning on some days and like I said, sitting down for prolonged periods of time in a chair that doesn't have adequate support. Have you seen a supermarket chair? It's uncofmortable even for people without back problems, and those who dont have them usually leave with one.

It's not fair to judge me based on a disability that is totally out of my control. Or judge my personality based on me quitting a job after a week. It was only going to last another week or so anyway as it was part time - it also clashed with my existing evening job so was untenable. My doctor thinks I'm fit for service, jsut have to see what OH think. 

I think judging someone's character is a very difficult task to do behind a computer screen. You were 18 once. We've all quit jobs we don't like. I stood up to a boss who was a bully, and didn't stay somewhere where I'd only be unhappy. In my view, that is commendable. I don't have a problem with authority, in fact I actualyl like structure and ranks, but the lack of professionalism my boss showed towards me was very shocking...

The army cadets will not have prepared you for dealing with the general public, police cadets or retail would.

If you think retail serves no purpose, I admire your ability to grow your own food or make your own clothes and computers etc.  Or do you not understand how society fits together?

As I read it you have not mentioned your bad back to the police - that is a rather key omission.  

All the supermarket till chairs I've seen are quite functional and adjustable.

Adult life is not the same as school life, lots and lots of things are unfair, just read a few threads on here.  Learning to cope with such things whilst striving for a more just society is a worthy character trait.

I've moved careers, I've never flounced out of a job without giving the legal notice.