Credit Card dispute leading to court procedures

Loobc

Hi All, 

I wasn't really sure where to pop this thread as there's a few issues I guess but it started with a credit card so thought I'd post here.  

I purchased an item back in July 2021, I contacted the merchant to start a return and they never replied to my email, the address they had on their site differed to the address where the item was sent from (address was on the item when it arrived) furthermore when I looked at the return policy it advises to email to start the return however it isn't 100% needed, it also goes on to say you may not get a refund unless you email us, all slightly misleading.  

I waited 14 days to receive a reply, this never came so I started a dispute with my credit card provider a week or so later I got an email from someone at the company (a different email address to that registered on the site) falsely accusing me of fraud and telling me that it will impact my credit file and future online purchases. The company said that I could return the items but due to the claims and threats they made I felt slightly concerned that something could happen to my credit file etc. 

I wrote back advising that due to their message I am concerned about the impact it could have and that I would rather let the companies (my credit card and their payment provider) deal with the matter, I thought that if they agreed with me I would be advised to send the items back and that would be that, I would have full recourse if something happened.  

A few weeks later I received an email stating the company had previously contact me several times regarding an outstanding bill (they had not) and that I owed them money, I contact my card company who advised they had settled the dispute in my favour. I responded to the merchant advising I was unwilling to pay as I had attempted to return the goods within my 14 day return window but I would be happy to send the item back to them, the merchant responded and refused the return saying it was out of there returns window (14 days) and I would have to pay the full amount owed. 

I responded again saying that I am not paying for something I tried to return and I'm happy to return the item just let me know where they want it sent, they never responded and today I got an email from HM Courts and Tribunals Service for a civil money claim. 

Whilst this is only for the sum of £79 it now has extra fees and charges against it, I really feel I have done everything I could to resolve this and the return is only being held back by the merchant now refusing to accept the item back.

Any advice would be great, I have spoken with Citizens Advice who advised me I have done everything correctly and I should be ok but if I'm honest with you I do not feel like that really acknowledged the situation. 

Many Thanks

Sandtree

Loobc said:
The company said that I could return the items but due to the claims and threats they made I felt slightly concerned that something could happen to my credit file etc. 

I wrote back advising that due to their message I am concerned about the impact it could have and that I would rather let the companies (my credit card and their payment provider) deal with the matter, I thought that if they agreed with me I would be advised to send the items back and that would be that, I would have full recourse if something happened.  

This is your error. You cannot have the money and the item. 

The bank has done a chargeback and so taken the money back from the merchant and give it to you. Banks are not the courts and do this fairly arbitrarily (they follow the scheme rules of Mastercard/Visa etc but most merchants will say its a process weighted in the consumer's favour).

You should have returned the item when they instructed you to at which point they'd have had their product, you'd have had your money and things would have been finished.

The threat of your credit file being impacted is an old one and only half true, if they go to court for the £79 (plus fees etc) and the court awards them the claim and you dont pay the court order within 30 days then absolutely you get a CCJ against your CRA records but it needs all those steps to happen... even if they win in court, if oyu pay it within 30 days it doesnt go onto your record. 

[Deleted User]

At this stage, you're almost certainly stuck with the items as you didn't return them.

Whether you can avoid the fees by paying up now I don't know, but it's the best course of action open to you.  Failing that, you can take your chances in court and be ready to pay quickly if they rule in favour of the claimant.

sourcrates

Well first off an email is not necessarily a court claim, what does the email say ?

I know they are currently testing an online only service, but the normal process is to receive a claim pack in the post.

Thrugelmir

If you haven't returned the items and also claimed the money. Then that's technically fraud. Expect the company to persue the matter further. 

eskbanker

Loobc said:

I waited 14 days to receive a reply, this never came so I started a dispute with my credit card provider

What specifically were you claiming for when raising this dispute?  Valid chargeback reasons include goods not received, or not as described, or refund not received (after returning goods), or other breaches of contract, but none of these would seem to apply here, so it's surprising that the card provider apparently upheld your claim....

Loobc

Sandtree said:

Loobc said:
The company said that I could return the items but due to the claims and threats they made I felt slightly concerned that something could happen to my credit file etc. 

I wrote back advising that due to their message I am concerned about the impact it could have and that I would rather let the companies (my credit card and their payment provider) deal with the matter, I thought that if they agreed with me I would be advised to send the items back and that would be that, I would have full recourse if something happened.  

This is your error. You cannot have the money and the item. 

The bank has done a chargeback and so taken the money back from the merchant and give it to you. Banks are not the courts and do this fairly arbitrarily (they follow the scheme rules of Mastercard/Visa etc but most merchants will say its a process weighted in the consumer's favour).

You should have returned the item when they instructed you to at which point they'd have had their product, you'd have had your money and things would have been finished.

The threat of your credit file being impacted is an old one and only half true, if they go to court for the £79 (plus fees etc) and the court awards them the claim and you dont pay the court order within 30 days then absolutely you get a CCJ against your CRA records but it needs all those steps to happen... even if they win in court, if oyu pay it within 30 days it doesnt go onto your record. 

I can't return something if they never gave the details to return said item and I really do not think as you have so politely put it as 'my fault' I done everything I could to return the item other than sending it to a random address in the hope that the item gets returned. 

The court had nothing to do with the threat, it was the first interaction the person had with me, calling me a fraudster and saying why am I claiming the items weren't received (I never said they were not)

Loobc

I did respond to all of the quotes but for some reason it hasn't sent or been deleted. Apparently it was suspicious? 

Loobc

Deleted_User said:

At this stage, you're almost certainly stuck with the items as you didn't return them.

Whether you can avoid the fees by paying up now I don't know, but it's the best course of action open to you.  Failing that, you can take your chances in court and be ready to pay quickly if they rule in favour of the claimant.

I can't return something if I was never given the option to pre dispute, it is the reason I raised it. I do find it amusing the people can't seem to see that every effort was made to return said item before it even got to this point, I can't return something if the person is refusing to accept it. Funny how they were happy to accept a return well after their 14day window but won't do it now? sourcrates said:

Well first off an email is not necessarily a court claim, what does the email say ?

I know they are currently testing an online only service, but the normal process is to receive a claim pack in the post.

It is a online money request, it first goes to mediation (if we both agree) then to court if we can't get passed that stage. Thrugelmir said:

If you haven't returned the items and also claimed the money. Then that's technically fraud. Expect the company to persue the matter further. 

The fraud claim was made before the money was 'awarded' I had a temporary credit whilst it was investigated, my provided didn't even tell me it was settled it was the merchant who informed me.eskbanker said:

Loobc said:

I waited 14 days to receive a reply, this never came so I started a dispute with my credit card provider

What specifically were you claiming for when raising this dispute?  Valid chargeback reasons include goods not received, or not as described, or refund not received (after returning goods), or other breaches of contract, but none of these would seem to apply here, so it's surprising that the card provider apparently upheld your claim....

I just told them I had attempted to start a return and the merchant didn't respond, they did they rest and gave the merchant the options to respond, they did and it was awarded to me. Upon this I offer again to send the items back. It was refused. 
Preview
I guess not accepting a return counts as a breach of contract? 

[Deleted User]

Loobc said:

Deleted_User said:

At this stage, you're almost certainly stuck with the items as you didn't return them.

Whether you can avoid the fees by paying up now I don't know, but it's the best course of action open to you.  Failing that, you can take your chances in court and be ready to pay quickly if they rule in favour of the claimant.

I can't return something if I was never given the option to pre dispute, it is the reason I raised it. I do find it amusing the people can't seem to see that every effort was made to return said item before it even got to this point, I can't return something if the person is refusing to accept it.

It's not really that amusing when you understand that we can only go by what you wrote.

They said you could return the item and for whatever reason, you didn't follow through on that. You could have asked them for the return details then. It's not really falling under the 'every effort was made' category.

eskbanker

Loobc said:

eskbanker said:

Loobc said:

I waited 14 days to receive a reply, this never came so I started a dispute with my credit card provider

What specifically were you claiming for when raising this dispute?  Valid chargeback reasons include goods not received, or not as described, or refund not received (after returning goods), or other breaches of contract, but none of these would seem to apply here, so it's surprising that the card provider apparently upheld your claim....

I just told them I had attempted to start a return and the merchant didn't respond, they did they rest and gave the merchant the options to respond, they did and it was awarded to me. Upon this I offer again to send the items back. It was refused. 
Preview
I guess not accepting a return counts as a breach of contract? 

It's true that online businesses are obliged under the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 to offer a 14 day cancellation period, so if they refused to honour this then yes, they'd be in breach, but if you sent an email and simply didn't see any response, then in itself I wouldn't have thought that would be seen as refusal - did you make any further attempts to contact them within the 14 days, in order to exercise your right to cancel?

Loobc said:
The court had nothing to do with the threat, it was the first interaction the person had with me, calling me a fraudster and saying why am I claiming the items weren't received (I never said they were not)

How much visibility did you have of the dialogue between your card provider and the merchant?  It seems odd for the merchant to assert that you were claiming non-receipt if you weren't....