Credit Card dispute leading to court procedures

in Credit Cards
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  • born_againborn_again Forumite
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    Realistically at the point that they contacted you, you should have tried to sort it out as amicably as possible. Instead, you ignored their request and let the chargeback go through (which again looks a lot like the actions of someone trying to rip them off.)  You can try to defend it by saying that you thought this was the best course of action but I'm struggling to see how a rational person would think these actions reasonable.
    The OP could not have stopped the chargeback, that is not possible. The only way would have been for the company to contest it. Which within the 45 day period they have a right to do.

    TBH. Given the lack of response from the company the OP did what they are entitled to. The problem here is solely with the company for their failure to respond to the OP in the 1st place & then not contesting the chargeback. Simply ringing the OP in the manner they did is not good customer service.

    Yes the company have a right to the goods back. But that is their issue to sort with the OP in as amicably way as possible. way. Not simply claim fraud & we are taking you to court.
    Life in the slow lane
  • Realistically at the point that they contacted you, you should have tried to sort it out as amicably as possible. Instead, you ignored their request and let the chargeback go through (which again looks a lot like the actions of someone trying to rip them off.)  You can try to defend it by saying that you thought this was the best course of action but I'm struggling to see how a rational person would think these actions reasonable.
    The OP could not have stopped the chargeback, that is not possible. The only way would have been for the company to contest it. Which within the 45 day period they have a right to do.

    TBH. Given the lack of response from the company the OP did what they are entitled to. The problem here is solely with the company for their failure to respond to the OP in the 1st place & then not contesting the chargeback. Simply ringing the OP in the manner they did is not good customer service.

    Yes the company have a right to the goods back. But that is their issue to sort with the OP in as amicably way as possible. way. Not simply claim fraud & we are taking you to court.
    It doesn't change the fact that the OP let it go through. The OP didn't even try to stop it.  They had no intention of stopping it. They did not tell the retailer "sorry, I can't stop it" they said "I would rather let the companies (my credit card and their payment provider) deal with the matter."  If I was a company and had little knowledge of the chargeback process, I'd be a bit miffed to receive that, to be honest.

    We don't know why the company failed to respond to the OP. As I said, it's not uncommon for certain email providers to not like each other's emails for whatever reason.  Perhaps the company just ignored the OP, but there's every chance the emails were never received.  Perhaps the chargeback (along with details that emails were not being responded to got them to check a few things and fix the problem. Who knows.
  • edited 24 November 2021 at 6:46PM
    LaHostessAvecLaMostessLaHostessAvecLaMostess Forumite
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    edited 24 November 2021 at 6:46PM
    Loobc said:
    Your response was bizarre.  Perhaps there is some method to the madness but from their perspective, you got the goods and then initiated a chargeback (possibly for non-receipt which would make matters even worse.)  You say you emailed them but is there perhaps a chance that those emails got lost in the ether?  Perhaps an overzealous spam filter?  

    Realistically at the point that they contacted you, you should have tried to sort it out as amicably as possible. Instead, you ignored their request and let the chargeback go through (which again looks a lot like the actions of someone trying to rip them off.)  You can try to defend it by saying that you thought this was the best course of action but I'm struggling to see how a rational person would think these actions reasonable.

    Ultimately as you've been told you have two (technically three I suppose) choices.  Pay them, try and bargain for the return of the item, or roll the dice over whether it actually ends up in court and again to see whether you'll win (I don't see the latter roll going in your favour.)
    I really can't stress enough, because I'm not sure it is sinking it, I have said on multiple occasions throughout the process I am happy to return the goods, I said that in my first message and I've said it in multiple replies, the company is refusing to accept and return. They are refusing, I am NOT refusing to send the item back. My first reply to them even said I am happy to send the items back when it has been dealt with by both companies. 
    I'm fully aware that emails were sent requesting a return. I'm saying that does not mean they were received.

    I waited 14 days to receive a reply, this never came so I started a dispute with my credit card provider

    The company did not refuse to accept the return, they failed to reply, which is absolutely not the same thing.

    a week or so later I got an email from someone at the company (a different email address to that registered on the site) falsely accusing me of fraud and telling me that it will impact my credit file and future online purchases. The company said that I could return the items but due to the claims and threats they made I felt slightly concerned that something could happen to my credit file etc. 

    I wrote back advising that due to their message I am concerned about the impact it could have and that I would rather let the companies (my credit card and their payment provider) deal with the matter
    So they asked you to send them back and you didn't explicitly refuse, because you seem to have missed it out of your reply.  OK, fair enough but it amounts to the same thing in anyone eyes.

  • LoobcLoobc Forumite
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    I'm fully aware that emails were sent requesting a return. I'm saying that does not mean they were received.
    Come on, that is very unlikely and I would've been notified if the email was not received/bounced back, every other company I have ever dealt with has been able to respond to an email, what is more likely they were busy and missed it, I assume this is a 'side business' for this person and not their main day to day job. 
    The company did not refuse to accept the return, they failed to reply, which is absolutely not the same thing.
    I don't think you've read any of my messages in that case, the company did not reply as you have said, so the dispute was opened and resolved in my favour, the company and I have now exchanged emails several times and I've offered to send the item back 4 or 5 times, they are refusing to receive the item back and say I must pay, I have refused to pay and continue to tell them I'm happy to return the goods. I thought I made that fairly clear?
    So they asked you to send them back and you didn't explicitly refuse, because you seem to have missed it out of your reply.  OK, fair enough but it amounts to the same thing in anyone eyes.


    I have offered several times since the dispute was resolved in my favour to return the item, I've said this multiple times but the company are refusing to accept a return.  
  • born_againborn_again Forumite
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    Realistically at the point that they contacted you, you should have tried to sort it out as amicably as possible. Instead, you ignored their request and let the chargeback go through (which again looks a lot like the actions of someone trying to rip them off.)  You can try to defend it by saying that you thought this was the best course of action but I'm struggling to see how a rational person would think these actions reasonable.
    The OP could not have stopped the chargeback, that is not possible. The only way would have been for the company to contest it. Which within the 45 day period they have a right to do.

    TBH. Given the lack of response from the company the OP did what they are entitled to. The problem here is solely with the company for their failure to respond to the OP in the 1st place & then not contesting the chargeback. Simply ringing the OP in the manner they did is not good customer service.

    Yes the company have a right to the goods back. But that is their issue to sort with the OP in as amicably way as possible. way. Not simply claim fraud & we are taking you to court.
    It doesn't change the fact that the OP let it go through. The OP didn't even try to stop it.  They had no intention of stopping it. They did not tell the retailer "sorry, I can't stop it" they said "I would rather let the companies (my credit card and their payment provider) deal with the matter."  If I was a company and had little knowledge of the chargeback process, I'd be a bit miffed to receive that, to be honest.

    We don't know why the company failed to respond to the OP. As I said, it's not uncommon for certain email providers to not like each other's emails for whatever reason.  Perhaps the company just ignored the OP, but there's every chance the emails were never received.  Perhaps the chargeback (along with details that emails were not being responded to got them to check a few things and fix the problem. Who knows.
    Yet you expect the OP to know the chargeback process? Someone who has even less knowledge of the payment process..

    Simple terms. YOU CAN'T STOP A CHARGEBACK once it has been started. 

    The company will have been informed by their merchant bank about the chargeback. If they did not know the process then they should have been asking the merchant bank.
    Life in the slow lane
  • edited 24 November 2021 at 10:55PM
    LaHostessAvecLaMostessLaHostessAvecLaMostess Forumite
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    edited 24 November 2021 at 10:55PM
    Realistically at the point that they contacted you, you should have tried to sort it out as amicably as possible. Instead, you ignored their request and let the chargeback go through (which again looks a lot like the actions of someone trying to rip them off.)  You can try to defend it by saying that you thought this was the best course of action but I'm struggling to see how a rational person would think these actions reasonable.
    The OP could not have stopped the chargeback, that is not possible. The only way would have been for the company to contest it. Which within the 45 day period they have a right to do.

    TBH. Given the lack of response from the company the OP did what they are entitled to. The problem here is solely with the company for their failure to respond to the OP in the 1st place & then not contesting the chargeback. Simply ringing the OP in the manner they did is not good customer service.

    Yes the company have a right to the goods back. But that is their issue to sort with the OP in as amicably way as possible. way. Not simply claim fraud & we are taking you to court.
    It doesn't change the fact that the OP let it go through. The OP didn't even try to stop it.  They had no intention of stopping it. They did not tell the retailer "sorry, I can't stop it" they said "I would rather let the companies (my credit card and their payment provider) deal with the matter."  If I was a company and had little knowledge of the chargeback process, I'd be a bit miffed to receive that, to be honest.

    We don't know why the company failed to respond to the OP. As I said, it's not uncommon for certain email providers to not like each other's emails for whatever reason.  Perhaps the company just ignored the OP, but there's every chance the emails were never received.  Perhaps the chargeback (along with details that emails were not being responded to got them to check a few things and fix the problem. Who knows.
    Yet you expect the OP to know the chargeback process? Someone who has even less knowledge of the payment process..

    Simple terms. YOU CAN'T STOP A CHARGEBACK once it has been started. 

    The company will have been informed by their merchant bank about the chargeback. If they did not know the process then they should have been asking the merchant bank.
    I never said I expected them to know the chargeback process. Where are you getting this from?

    You claimed that the OP couldn't have cancelled it.  I pointed out that was irrelevant as the OP never tried.

    It appears neither party understood how the chargeback process works, but it doesn't help that the OP's response was incredibly dismissive, and essentially "deal with my card company because I can't be bothered dealing with you myself."
  • If you haven't returned the items and also claimed the money. Then that's technically fraud. Expect the company to persue the matter further. 
    It's not 'technically fraud' in any way. Foolish yes, Fraud no.
    Wrongfull deception for personal financial gain. From the Company's perspective that's fraud. 
    It's fraud if the company can prove it in a court of law - not their 'perspective'.
    Given the narrative here, I doubt a judge would come to that conclusion. 
  • eskbankereskbanker Forumite
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    Loobc said:
    I have offered several times since the dispute was resolved in my favour to return the item, I've said this multiple times but the company are refusing to accept a return.  
    I think you've misunderstood the card company's role here.

    Chargeback is a mechanism via which customers can retrieve their money from merchants, under a specific range of circumstances, but even if the card company agreed to refund the customer, this does not resolve the dispute between customer and merchant at all, it simply reimburses the former at the expense of the latter.

    As seen in many cases on this forum, merchants who've lost out via chargeback are still free to pursue the customer for the resultant debt, so the card company simply doesn't have any authority to resolve a dispute as such, even if they choose to pass on the money.

    So, disengaging from your dialogue with the merchant and expecting the card company to take care of things for you was never going to resolve the matter, and will have significantly reduced the prospect of an amicable agreement.

    Now that the merchant is pursuing you for the money, the fact that the card company sided with you when choosing to return the funds is essentially irrelevant.

    Having said that, it's still not clear on what (valid) grounds the card company raised the chargeback against the merchant in the first place - you guessed that it might be an argument that lack of response within 14 days constitutes an actionable breach, but that still doesn't align with any of the reason codes shared by another poster earlier.  Did you see the actual claim?
  • anotheruseranotheruser Forumite
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    If you haven't returned the items and also claimed the money. Then that's technically fraud. Expect the company to persue the matter further. 
    But if the buyer WANTED to return the item and the seller has refused to give that information, surely it's not really fraud - the seller has forced that situation.
    If I don't provide specifics to a question, don't ask for them in your answer.
    When I want specific answers, I'll provide the information.
  • anotheruseranotheruser Forumite
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    MEM62 said:
    It is clear that you feel that you are in the right here and, rather than accepting the advice of those knowledgeable people that have responded, you continue to debate or reject it.  I appreciate that this is personal for you but this will not benefit you.  At this stage you only have two options open to you - pay and avoid the legal action progressing or have you day in court and make your case. 
    That's not really helpful.

    The buyer has the goods and the money.  We all agree, even the OP, this is not a good situation.
    The buyer WANTS to send the item back but the seller is refusing to provide an address.
    How in any way, shape or form is that the buyers fault?

    I went through a similar thing with someone from ebay.
    I wanted to return the item, they dilly dallied and refused.  I went through PayPal, they didn't bother to reply so PayPal awarded me full refund.  Only then did that prompt the seller into some sort of action.  Their laziness opportunity to respond was not taken and thus that shouldn't have been my fault.  They chose not to respond so why should they suddenly want the product back?
    If I don't provide specifics to a question, don't ask for them in your answer.
    When I want specific answers, I'll provide the information.
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