Energy news in general

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

matt_drummer said:

Cutting down trees isn't always bad, it is actually necessary and part of good forestry management.

I understand you can thin out and even things like forest fires can be a natural part of the forest life cycle with it's own benefits and draw backs but the image above simply looks like devastation of the forest? 

matt_drummer

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

matt_drummer said:

Cutting down trees isn't always bad, it is actually necessary and part of good forestry management.

I understand you can thin out and even things like forest fires can be a natural part of the forest life cycle with it's own benefits and draw backs but the image above simply looks like devastation of the forest? 

Maybe it was dead?

And will be replanted?

The harvesting was legal and it looks like any other forest that has been harvested ready for replanting.

Young trees are better for the environment than old trees, young growing trees consume more co2

debitcardmayhem

matt_drummer said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

matt_drummer said:

Cutting down trees isn't always bad, it is actually necessary and part of good forestry management.

I understand you can thin out and even things like forest fires can be a natural part of the forest life cycle with it's own benefits and draw backs but the image above simply looks like devastation of the forest? 

Maybe it was dead?

And will be replanted?

The harvesting was legal and it looks like any other forest that has been harvested ready for replanting.

Young trees are better for the environment than old trees, young growing trees consume more co2

Legal yes, but shipping tons of pellets 3000 miles on polluting transport, and then burning them can really be carbon neutral, and justify subsidies which makes everybody’s bills higher? Just my thoughts of course

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

matt_drummer said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

matt_drummer said:

Cutting down trees isn't always bad, it is actually necessary and part of good forestry management.

I understand you can thin out and even things like forest fires can be a natural part of the forest life cycle with it's own benefits and draw backs but the image above simply looks like devastation of the forest? 

Maybe it was dead?

And will be replanted?

The harvesting was legal and it looks like any other forest that has been harvested ready for replanting.

Young trees are better for the environment than old trees, young growing trees consume more co2

It may be legal but if the bill payer is funding the process (at least in part) via subsidies I don't think many would be happy with the idea of something that is labelled green requiring primary forests being cut down.

I find it hard to believe the forest was dead as for planting new trees, yes indeed it's a good thing (assuming the correct trees are planted in the right place) but there is plenty of land available for planting new trees without cutting out old forests first, secondly when trees die and rot the carbon goes back in the ground, burning it puts the carbon in the air. 

It's an example of lots of money being made through processes that are harmful to our environment being labelled as green that we are paying for whilst being told to cut our own footprints.  

matt_drummer

debitcardmayhem said:

matt_drummer said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

matt_drummer said:

Cutting down trees isn't always bad, it is actually necessary and part of good forestry management.

I understand you can thin out and even things like forest fires can be a natural part of the forest life cycle with it's own benefits and draw backs but the image above simply looks like devastation of the forest? 

Maybe it was dead?

And will be replanted?

The harvesting was legal and it looks like any other forest that has been harvested ready for replanting.

Young trees are better for the environment than old trees, young growing trees consume more co2

Legal yes, but shipping tons of pellets 3000 miles on polluting transport, and then burning them can really be carbon neutral, and justify subsidies which makes everybody’s bills higher? Just my thoughts of course

Yes, I mentioned the transport before, it's not good.

matt_drummer

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

matt_drummer said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

matt_drummer said:

Cutting down trees isn't always bad, it is actually necessary and part of good forestry management.

I understand you can thin out and even things like forest fires can be a natural part of the forest life cycle with it's own benefits and draw backs but the image above simply looks like devastation of the forest? 

Maybe it was dead?

And will be replanted?

The harvesting was legal and it looks like any other forest that has been harvested ready for replanting.

Young trees are better for the environment than old trees, young growing trees consume more co2

It may be legal but if the bill payer is funding the process (at least in part) via subsidies I don't think many would be happy with the idea of something that is labelled green requiring primary forests being cut down.

I find it hard to believe the forest was dead as for planting new trees, yes indeed it's a good thing (assuming the correct trees are planted in the right place) but there is plenty of land available for planting new trees without cutting out old forests first, secondly when trees die and rot the carbon goes back in the ground, burning it puts the carbon in the air. 

It's an example of lots of money being made through processes that are harmful to our environment being labelled as green that we are paying for whilst being told to cut our own footprints.  

I don't know, it is what it is and perhaps we are not supposed to talk about it here, so I won't.

None of it makes EVs and heat pumps a bad idea though

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

matt_drummer said:

None of it makes EVs and heat pumps a bad idea though

Yes indeed and my rantings shouldn't be taken to mean I disagree in that respect  

Troytempest

Interesting debate but I come back to my original point - EV's and heat pumps will not gain mass adoption until cost, infrastructure and price line up.

Having a heat pump would be physically impossible for some dwellings and many could not charge a car at home....

mmmmikey

I wouldn't read too much in those pictures. Good forestry practice is to fell and re-stock with native species at a sustainable rate in order to maintain bio- and age- diversity. Lots of wildlife depends on that type of clear felling for it's survival (not just the trees). In simple terms, if you grow trees until they are 100 years old, you can fell 1/100 of those trees every year and still sustain the woodland. What you can't tell from those pictures is if the cleared area represents this year's 1/100 of the wider forest or whether it has been over-felled. It's quite possible for felling like that to be done on a sustainable basis. You'll also no doubt be aware that a lot of native UK woodland was destroyed in the last century and replaced by fast growing conifers, and that is currently progessively being restocked with native UK species - those pictures could be evidence of that kind of activity.

(All this being based on experience of owning and managing a few acres of woodland in an SSSI area on the ancient fringes of Sherwood Forest, with advice coming from the Woodland Trust who own one of the neighbouring woods)

I agree about the general issues of sustainability and transport impact, though.

MacPingu1986

Troytempest said:

Interesting debate but I come back to my original point - EV's and heat pumps will not gain mass adoption until cost, infrastructure and price line up.

Having a heat pump would be physically impossible for some dwellings and many could not charge a car at home....

Which they're all on a solid trajectory to do.

On EV charging at home, whilst its definitely a nice advantage if you have it, the average car travels less than 100 miles per week so even without home charging the typical owner would only need to charge every fortnight (with ranges increasing all the time), and this could be done at work if you have charge-points, or at the supermarket, or in town running/errands/drinking a coffee - all that stuff.

(and for perspective, no ICE owner can fuel up at home)