Energy news in general

ariarnia

MattMattMattUK said:

pfpf said:

we didn't even get WHD this time having got it 3 previous years (low household income) let alone any additional help.
thanks.

The WHD criteria was changed so some people who did get it no longer do and others who did not now do get it.

also maybe worth saying that more people on paper get it in total (tho there seems to be a not 0 number who 'should' get it under the new rules havent because of some problems with implementation and what they accept as evidence/how they explain eligibility on the helpline but hopefully just teething problems for the first year) 

EssexHebridean

On the WHD thing - it should be clear to see for anyone who is even vaguely regular on here that there has been significant issues with the changes which have been implemented on that this year. Firstly with the new guidelines around who will/won't get it, but then additionally with those who have fallen through the net and then struggled to get that rectified because those manning the helplines don't understand the situation.

michaels

ariarnia said:

EssexHebridean said:

ariarnia said:

i dont have the details the chancellor has and agree its a complicated question but cant help but feel some of the comments made by some who support the increase are dismissive and patronising of those who are and have been struggling. 

i posted on the other thread that as the guarentee is expected to be a lot cheaper than budgeted for then i think it would remove a lot of anxiety from a lot of people who are concerend about energy prices AS PART OF the wider problems with the economy/inflation/cost of living and world afairs if they kept it where it was.

a lot of people have pointed out how close to the actual cap (and under the cap) the cost is supposed to be over the year so on the other side of that is how over the year it wont actually cost the goverment all that much while not adding yet another stick to already breaking (mental and metaphorical) backs.

yes we can spend that cash on other things and ive already said i dont have a problem with it if thats what they do but i think we shouldn't dismiss the people what choice is going to hurt by saying its as simple as 'eating cold food' when some of those people are struggling to eat reguarly at all without food bank help already. 

This is the thing - "people" are about more than just the hard facts. Sure, we can reassure on here as much as we like that in fact that oft-quoted £500 increase will actually for almost everyone be a far, far smaller amount, but that doesn't stop them worrying when they constantly see the other ide of the story presented in the mainstream media. We're all in our own bubble to an extent - for some of the regulars on these boards it might be a "bubble" where they're surrounded by folk with good knowledge on energy matters, or savings and investments matters - but that's not representative of the world at large. The flip side is that for someone in debt, all they see if the debt, that they can't make ends meet, and the appearance of there being no end in sight is what keeps them awake at night. On top of the cost of living crisis we are heading at a rapid rate towards a consumer debt crisis too - that is going to have massive implications for particularly middle earners I suspect in a few years time when deals end and the interest starts having an impact. I think the "bubble" thing is very much underlined by the suggestion that someone struggling to make ends meet because of a constant stream of price rises should just eat their food cold or cook it more efficiently - it's a massive simplification for a start because a lot of those people won't have any way of cooking more efficiently than they already are, and may already be eating cold food most of the time. There are only so many cuts you can make before you hit bone.  I'm incredibly fortunate to be able to afford my energy bills, AND to have a home that is relatively speaking easy to heat, albeit I've got to that position of fortune thanks to decent choices and hard work (had we still been clearing off a mortgage we might be in a rather less comfortable position - and had we not paid it off early by OP'ing we would indeed still have another 5 years to go) but I can absolutely see and understand why this current cost of living situation is causing huge amounts of stress and distress to so many people. And of course I've also had a degree of privilege to be able to have made those choices, too! The implied assumption that those who are struggling must be in some way profligate or wasteful and should simply be "doing things better" does feel really removed from reality, and I slightly question how by this stage anyone can still be so cushioned from the way others live that they can believe that's a realistic solution for the majority.

It is complicated - but I think Martin has put his case very well on this - when you're budgeting to spend X amount on something, and in fact the actual costs even if maintaining the current level of support will still come in way below that X figure, there is a very good case for viewing that as a "saving" in real terms. There is also of course the point that there may well be more savings to be made in terms of lower healthcare costs due to improved mental health thanks to the reassurance the perceived "extra help" provides. Sure, for middle and higher earners the EPG increase will probably be better further along the line as it will reduce their tax burden, I can see the thinking, but I'm not really sure I can agree with it. (Perhaps because I'm NOT a middle or high earner!) 

this completely.

its really easy for people on here to wave there hands and say it's 'nominal' but real people are going to see a real increase in what they pay each month from april and its going to hurt. 

mental health is already bad after the last couple of years and this is really not going to help. 

£1.6bn of the £2.6bn that extending the EPG at the current rate will cost will go to the top 50% of the population who are far from being low earners.

Instead that £2.6bn could buy the same £1bn of support to lower earners leaving £1.6bn for additional mental health services.

Seem to be some on here who advocate helping the rich pay to heat their swimming pools and others who think if there is £2.6bn to be spent the majority should go to those who are actually struggling.

ariarnia

michaels said:

Seem to be some on here who advocate helping the rich pay to heat their swimming pools and others who think if there is £2.6bn to be spent the majority should go to those who are actually struggling.

really? not sure ive seen any posts suggesting the 'savings' should go to more support for lower earners or for mental health services (which id support if it wasnt all means tested with a cliff edge or via limited passport benifits). the suggestions ive seen is that it shouldn't be spent at all and reduce borrowing to benifit tax payers (inc 'the rich' who pay most tax) longer term. 

ariarnia

EssexHebridean said:

On the WHD thing - it should be clear to see for anyone who is even vaguely regular on here that there has been significant issues with the changes which have been implemented on that this year. Firstly with the new guidelines around who will/won't get it, but then additionally with those who have fallen through the net and then struggled to get that rectified because those manning the helplines don't understand the situation.

one simple thing to do that seems obvious with hindsite would be to have sent a letter to people who got it last year to explain the change and new eligability criteria (wouldn't have to confirm if they got it or not but just that things had changed and how to find out if they were going to get it or not so it wasnt a total surprise).

that and accept evidence other than an epc when there was missing data! but hopefully 'lessons learned'

Mstty

michaels said:

ariarnia said:

EssexHebridean said:

ariarnia said:

i dont have the details the chancellor has and agree its a complicated question but cant help but feel some of the comments made by some who support the increase are dismissive and patronising of those who are and have been struggling. 

i posted on the other thread that as the guarentee is expected to be a lot cheaper than budgeted for then i think it would remove a lot of anxiety from a lot of people who are concerend about energy prices AS PART OF the wider problems with the economy/inflation/cost of living and world afairs if they kept it where it was.

a lot of people have pointed out how close to the actual cap (and under the cap) the cost is supposed to be over the year so on the other side of that is how over the year it wont actually cost the goverment all that much while not adding yet another stick to already breaking (mental and metaphorical) backs.

yes we can spend that cash on other things and ive already said i dont have a problem with it if thats what they do but i think we shouldn't dismiss the people what choice is going to hurt by saying its as simple as 'eating cold food' when some of those people are struggling to eat reguarly at all without food bank help already. 

This is the thing - "people" are about more than just the hard facts. Sure, we can reassure on here as much as we like that in fact that oft-quoted £500 increase will actually for almost everyone be a far, far smaller amount, but that doesn't stop them worrying when they constantly see the other ide of the story presented in the mainstream media. We're all in our own bubble to an extent - for some of the regulars on these boards it might be a "bubble" where they're surrounded by folk with good knowledge on energy matters, or savings and investments matters - but that's not representative of the world at large. The flip side is that for someone in debt, all they see if the debt, that they can't make ends meet, and the appearance of there being no end in sight is what keeps them awake at night. On top of the cost of living crisis we are heading at a rapid rate towards a consumer debt crisis too - that is going to have massive implications for particularly middle earners I suspect in a few years time when deals end and the interest starts having an impact. I think the "bubble" thing is very much underlined by the suggestion that someone struggling to make ends meet because of a constant stream of price rises should just eat their food cold or cook it more efficiently - it's a massive simplification for a start because a lot of those people won't have any way of cooking more efficiently than they already are, and may already be eating cold food most of the time. There are only so many cuts you can make before you hit bone.  I'm incredibly fortunate to be able to afford my energy bills, AND to have a home that is relatively speaking easy to heat, albeit I've got to that position of fortune thanks to decent choices and hard work (had we still been clearing off a mortgage we might be in a rather less comfortable position - and had we not paid it off early by OP'ing we would indeed still have another 5 years to go) but I can absolutely see and understand why this current cost of living situation is causing huge amounts of stress and distress to so many people. And of course I've also had a degree of privilege to be able to have made those choices, too! The implied assumption that those who are struggling must be in some way profligate or wasteful and should simply be "doing things better" does feel really removed from reality, and I slightly question how by this stage anyone can still be so cushioned from the way others live that they can believe that's a realistic solution for the majority.

It is complicated - but I think Martin has put his case very well on this - when you're budgeting to spend X amount on something, and in fact the actual costs even if maintaining the current level of support will still come in way below that X figure, there is a very good case for viewing that as a "saving" in real terms. There is also of course the point that there may well be more savings to be made in terms of lower healthcare costs due to improved mental health thanks to the reassurance the perceived "extra help" provides. Sure, for middle and higher earners the EPG increase will probably be better further along the line as it will reduce their tax burden, I can see the thinking, but I'm not really sure I can agree with it. (Perhaps because I'm NOT a middle or high earner!) 

this completely.

its really easy for people on here to wave there hands and say it's 'nominal' but real people are going to see a real increase in what they pay each month from april and its going to hurt. 

mental health is already bad after the last couple of years and this is really not going to help. 

£1.6bn of the £2.6bn that extending the EPG at the current rate will cost will go to the top 50% of the population who are far from being low earners.

Instead that £2.6bn could buy the same £1bn of support to lower earners leaving £1.6bn for additional mental health services.

Seem to be some on here who advocate helping the rich pay to heat their swimming pools and others who think if there is £2.6bn to be spent the majority should go to those who are actually struggling.

That's it in a nutshell really, no need for everyone to have their energy reduced from the notional £3000 to £2500 Apr-Jul for reasons already stated but yes those in dire need setup a fund they can claim from whether it be for cost of living/mental health whatever the issues are. The issue of course is the cost of such a scheme for three months as it would probably cost them a £1 in admin for every £1 handed out which is why they won't do this and it'll be either £2500 or £3000.

markin

UK energy firms must pass on price savings to customers, ministers warn

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/01/uk-energy-firms-must-pass-on-price-savings-to-customers-grant-shapps

Mstty

markin said:

UK energy firms must pass on price savings to customers, ministers warn

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/01/uk-energy-firms-must-pass-on-price-savings-to-customers-grant-shapps

One comment which I hope means decoupling the cost of electricity from gas

“I have one overriding mission in this new job: for the UK to have amongst the cheapest wholesale electricity prices in Europe,” said Shapps

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Mstty

BBC News - Energy firms expect bill help to continue in April

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64830701