Energy news in general

EssexHebridean

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

michaels said:

Does anyone know how much the govt is saving on the unhedged bulb bail out due to lower than anticipated gas prices over the last few months - probably another couple of billion saved?

LMGTFY if true of course

There is a slight confusion of the issues, The government had already spent £4.6 billion on the cost of subsidising Bulb whilst in Special Administration as of Q2 2022 and that was expected to rise to £6.5 billion by the time it was disposed of. Octopus has paid the government £1.2 billion for the corpse of Bulb so there is some that will be recouped via that and the predicted £1.9 billion additionally will not have been as bad as Bulb managed to buy energy cheaper than predicted. The actual cost will not be known until later this year when the legal issues are resolved and the National Audit Office can finalise the cost implications, but the real cost is likely to be somewhere between £2.2 and £4.8 billion. 

Do you think that has been written off whatever it costs or will that be added the the standing charges to be recouped?

The government's line was always that it would be recovered by SoLR once the final cost was known, but it is currently funded from general taxation and the final costs will not be known until the back end of this year. I suspect in the end it will be left in general taxation purely because otherwise it would add 43p per day over one year, 22p per day over two years or 14p per day over three years to the standing charge and I think that would go down like a lead balloon. 

That was my understanding as well so good to have confirmation.

Like yourself I don't think they can it to the SC. Dual fuel is £300 a year from April which will no doubt become a hot topic when people realise.

I would not want to bet on it either way, but I do think that it will be deemed unpalatable to put it on the SC, especially as it will hit in the run up to next year's general election. 

I think we will get another tranche of people having a tantrum about standing charges once people see the prices, with the same as previous that it is "the energy companies ripping people off" with them failing to understand that the energy providers do not get to keep the standing charge. 

I'm already braced and ready for another avalanche of standing charge related outrage! 

The payment by DD point which has been raised should, if suppliers are even vaguely sensible, be a non-issue. With fairly solid predictions of an actual decrease in costs come the next cap announcement, and the fact that this planned increase in April is coming into the cheapest period of the year in terms of real energy use for the majority, common sense would dictate that suppliers hold fire on any DD increases beyond perhaps in cases where people have already got a shortfall and are predicted to fall into debt. Of course the question is whether that level of intelligence will be applied, or whether the algorithms will take over! 

brewerdave

EssexHebridean said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

michaels said:

Does anyone know how much the govt is saving on the unhedged bulb bail out due to lower than anticipated gas prices over the last few months - probably another couple of billion saved?

LMGTFY if true of course

There is a slight confusion of the issues, The government had already spent £4.6 billion on the cost of subsidising Bulb whilst in Special Administration as of Q2 2022 and that was expected to rise to £6.5 billion by the time it was disposed of. Octopus has paid the government £1.2 billion for the corpse of Bulb so there is some that will be recouped via that and the predicted £1.9 billion additionally will not have been as bad as Bulb managed to buy energy cheaper than predicted. The actual cost will not be known until later this year when the legal issues are resolved and the National Audit Office can finalise the cost implications, but the real cost is likely to be somewhere between £2.2 and £4.8 billion. 

Do you think that has been written off whatever it costs or will that be added the the standing charges to be recouped?

The government's line was always that it would be recovered by SoLR once the final cost was known, but it is currently funded from general taxation and the final costs will not be known until the back end of this year. I suspect in the end it will be left in general taxation purely because otherwise it would add 43p per day over one year, 22p per day over two years or 14p per day over three years to the standing charge and I think that would go down like a lead balloon. 

That was my understanding as well so good to have confirmation.

Like yourself I don't think they can it to the SC. Dual fuel is £300 a year from April which will no doubt become a hot topic when people realise.

I would not want to bet on it either way, but I do think that it will be deemed unpalatable to put it on the SC, especially as it will hit in the run up to next year's general election. 

I think we will get another tranche of people having a tantrum about standing charges once people see the prices, with the same as previous that it is "the energy companies ripping people off" with them failing to understand that the energy providers do not get to keep the standing charge. 

I'm already braced and ready for another avalanche of standing charge related outrage! 

The payment by DD point which has been raised should, if suppliers are even vaguely sensible, be a non-issue. With fairly solid predictions of an actual decrease in costs come the next cap announcement, and the fact that this planned increase in April is coming into the cheapest period of the year in terms of real energy use for the majority, common sense would dictate that suppliers hold fire on any DD increases beyond perhaps in cases where people have already got a shortfall and are predicted to fall into debt. Of course the question is whether that level of intelligence will be applied, or whether the algorithms will take over! 

BG currently haven't taken ANY future price rises into account with their DD algorithm - in fact ,in my case, they seem to be predicting a big fall !! LOL

SnakePlissken

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

michaels said:

Does anyone know how much the govt is saving on the unhedged bulb bail out due to lower than anticipated gas prices over the last few months - probably another couple of billion saved?

LMGTFY if true of course

There is a slight confusion of the issues, The government had already spent £4.6 billion on the cost of subsidising Bulb whilst in Special Administration as of Q2 2022 and that was expected to rise to £6.5 billion by the time it was disposed of. Octopus has paid the government £1.2 billion for the corpse of Bulb so there is some that will be recouped via that and the predicted £1.9 billion additionally will not have been as bad as Bulb managed to buy energy cheaper than predicted. The actual cost will not be known until later this year when the legal issues are resolved and the National Audit Office can finalise the cost implications, but the real cost is likely to be somewhere between £2.2 and £4.8 billion. 

Actually the 4.5 billion was max of allocated funds to cover if bulb went burst.

Government has been advised by the special administrators that they estimate the new post-completion funding facility, limited in the manner described in the paragraph above, has an upper value of £4.5 billion...

The objective of government providing this support is

(i) to address the social hardship that would be caused to Bulb’s customers if Bulb were to be forced into a ‘hard close insolvency’ resulting in Bulb being unable to continue supplies of electricity to its customers 

Full details are in the link below...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bulb-special-administration-regime-sar-post-transfer-facility/bulb-sar-post-transfer-facility

deano2099

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

michaels said:

Does anyone know how much the govt is saving on the unhedged bulb bail out due to lower than anticipated gas prices over the last few months - probably another couple of billion saved?

LMGTFY if true of course

There is a slight confusion of the issues, The government had already spent £4.6 billion on the cost of subsidising Bulb whilst in Special Administration as of Q2 2022 and that was expected to rise to £6.5 billion by the time it was disposed of. Octopus has paid the government £1.2 billion for the corpse of Bulb so there is some that will be recouped via that and the predicted £1.9 billion additionally will not have been as bad as Bulb managed to buy energy cheaper than predicted. The actual cost will not be known until later this year when the legal issues are resolved and the National Audit Office can finalise the cost implications, but the real cost is likely to be somewhere between £2.2 and £4.8 billion. Is 

Is there a good source for reading about the whole Bulb thing as I'm baffled to how it could possibly be costing that much. £6.5 billion would be over £4000 per customer - and I can't get my head round where that money would go.

SnakePlissken

deano2099 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

michaels said:

Does anyone know how much the govt is saving on the unhedged bulb bail out due to lower than anticipated gas prices over the last few months - probably another couple of billion saved?

LMGTFY if true of course

There is a slight confusion of the issues, The government had already spent £4.6 billion on the cost of subsidising Bulb whilst in Special Administration as of Q2 2022 and that was expected to rise to £6.5 billion by the time it was disposed of. Octopus has paid the government £1.2 billion for the corpse of Bulb so there is some that will be recouped via that and the predicted £1.9 billion additionally will not have been as bad as Bulb managed to buy energy cheaper than predicted. The actual cost will not be known until later this year when the legal issues are resolved and the National Audit Office can finalise the cost implications, but the real cost is likely to be somewhere between £2.2 and £4.8 billion. Is 

Is there a good source for reading about the whole Bulb thing as I'm baffled to how it could possibly be costing that much. £6.5 billion would be over £4000 per customer - and I can't get my head round where that money would go.

In very simplified explanation, the 4.5 billion were allocated funds in event that bulb went bust and uk gov had to buy the energy on wholsale market and had to ensure customers were supplied energy.

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bulb-special-administration-regime-sar-post-transfer-facility

deano2099

SnakePlissken said:

deano2099 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

michaels said:

Does anyone know how much the govt is saving on the unhedged bulb bail out due to lower than anticipated gas prices over the last few months - probably another couple of billion saved?

LMGTFY if true of course

There is a slight confusion of the issues, The government had already spent £4.6 billion on the cost of subsidising Bulb whilst in Special Administration as of Q2 2022 and that was expected to rise to £6.5 billion by the time it was disposed of. Octopus has paid the government £1.2 billion for the corpse of Bulb so there is some that will be recouped via that and the predicted £1.9 billion additionally will not have been as bad as Bulb managed to buy energy cheaper than predicted. The actual cost will not be known until later this year when the legal issues are resolved and the National Audit Office can finalise the cost implications, but the real cost is likely to be somewhere between £2.2 and £4.8 billion. Is 

Is there a good source for reading about the whole Bulb thing as I'm baffled to how it could possibly be costing that much. £6.5 billion would be over £4000 per customer - and I can't get my head round where that money would go.

In very simplified explanation, the 4.5 billion were allocated funds in event that bulb went bust and uk gov had to buy the energy on wholsale market and had to ensure customers were supplied energy.

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bulb-special-administration-regime-sar-post-transfer-facility

But those customers would still be paying something for energy? And the EPG still applies right (or is the EPG-equivalent funding for Bulb customers rolled into this)? So it's just the gap between the wholesale price and the price cap? 
Other energy companies are losing money, but they're nowhere near that in magnitude.

ariarnia

Mstty said:

ariarnia said:

Mstty said:

I suspect those in the Ukraine or the earthquake effected areas of Turkey and Syria and the myriad of other atrocities that are happening across the world on the past few years may be higher on the list of mental health issues. (Facts on mental health a relatively new term for statistical collection would be interesting here before mental health is already bad) 

what does bad things happening elsewhere in the world have to do with the discussion re energy prices in the uk? 

decisions made about energy prices/support made by the uk goverment will have a direct impact on the health and well being of people in the uk. not in the ukraine or turkey. 

whataboutery at its finest. 

if you want to no who some of the 'real people' are who are struggling and will struggle more then maybe go over to the debt free board and see how they take your advice to eat cold food to save on cooking costs... 

I am just moving the goalposts like you do with an argument at every response. 

What's good for the goose etc.

Each time there is a new affliction for these so called "real" people of yours.

It will end up being an endless back and forth like so many other threads.

Let's just all wait and see what happens, as said above I think Sunak will cave for some votes and keep it at £2500 anyway. I don't agree with it as outlined in other threads that don't need repeating here endlessly. 

what i am trying to do is discuss the potential consequences of the decision and why i would prefer them to keep the cap where it is (but that i understand why they might increase it and the arguments for doing that). 

what your trying to do i have no idea but its feeling like you want to 'win' in some way by being mean and patronising so have fun with that... 

SnakePlissken

deano2099 said:

SnakePlissken said:

deano2099 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Mstty said:

michaels said:

Does anyone know how much the govt is saving on the unhedged bulb bail out due to lower than anticipated gas prices over the last few months - probably another couple of billion saved?

LMGTFY if true of course

There is a slight confusion of the issues, The government had already spent £4.6 billion on the cost of subsidising Bulb whilst in Special Administration as of Q2 2022 and that was expected to rise to £6.5 billion by the time it was disposed of. Octopus has paid the government £1.2 billion for the corpse of Bulb so there is some that will be recouped via that and the predicted £1.9 billion additionally will not have been as bad as Bulb managed to buy energy cheaper than predicted. The actual cost will not be known until later this year when the legal issues are resolved and the National Audit Office can finalise the cost implications, but the real cost is likely to be somewhere between £2.2 and £4.8 billion. Is 

Is there a good source for reading about the whole Bulb thing as I'm baffled to how it could possibly be costing that much. £6.5 billion would be over £4000 per customer - and I can't get my head round where that money would go.

In very simplified explanation, the 4.5 billion were allocated funds in event that bulb went bust and uk gov had to buy the energy on wholsale market and had to ensure customers were supplied energy.

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bulb-special-administration-regime-sar-post-transfer-facility

But those customers would still be paying something for energy? And the EPG still applies right (or is the EPG-equivalent funding for Bulb customers rolled into this)? So it's just the gap between the wholesale price and the price cap? 
Other energy companies are losing money, but they're nowhere near that in magnitude.

If you read the link it expains it better than i can 

pfpf

just read back a few pages and have seen mention of "help" to the tune of "up to £900"? is that to the same group/s as the additional £600.00 from last year?
we didn't even get WHD this time having got it 3 previous years (low household income) let alone any additional help.
thanks.

MattMattMattUK

pfpf said:

just read back a few pages and have seen mention of "help" to the tune of "up to £900"? is that to the same group/s as the additional £600.00 from last year?

Yes, they are the same group, the link below explains the criteria for eligibility. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/over-8-million-families-in-the-uk-to-receive-new-cost-of-living-payment-this-spring

pfpf said:

we didn't even get WHD this time having got it 3 previous years (low household income) let alone any additional help.
thanks.

The WHD criteria was changed so some people who did get it no longer do and others who did not now do get it.