Energy news in general

Mstty

It's a good question to pose and not one that can be answered with the swipe of some keys on my keyboard as the question and answer is too complex, rich and variable it will send this into a non ending debate.

I will add that line will be drawn somewhere maybe at £2500 or £3000 or maybe somewhere in between. There will always be some section of the population worse off wherever that line is and in more need than another so the question posed is impossible.to answer sadly but the lowered and lower it's set the less households will learn about their energy usage and cutting back imo.

I do however think this is a great PR opportunity for the conservative government to pull a rabbit out of the hat so I would be surprised if they chose £3000 EPG.

What would you do?

( @ariarnia Reply to your response below as I don't like to chew up threads with an endless back and forth as has happened recently)

If it came across of simplistic then that was not my aim it is too vast a subject for anything to be typed here to not appear simplistic, cutting back when households have got used to endless energy cheaply is obviously a big challenge for most. 

Now you are adding in foodbanks to the discussion and again I point to the fact the things you could add for hardship are endless so this will just end in a back and forth for what ifs that is just not healthy. I am happy with my justification in the other thread to keep the EPG at £3000 as you are for lowering it to £2500. That really is the end of that👍

MattMattMattUK

What_time_is_it said:

If you were in control of the Government money machine and could see that energy wholesale prices are falling would you make an announcement now or leave it until as late as possible?  Personally, I am not sure that the EPG is required given that everyone’s monthly energy bill will fall from Spring through to Autumn. If the Government has any spare cash then there are other key priorities that need to be funded: not least, the Defence budget.

I would weigh up the trade off between providing certainty and ensuring the best possible decision is taken. 
I'm not convinced that the government is valuing clarity and certainty at all regarding energy prices, and this is having a negative effect on people's ability to understand and have faith in the current system.
It's a shambles.

The EPG is either £2.5k or £3k, with the way that energy usage is distributed over the year I am not sure it makes a huge amount of difference either way as we will be out of the high usage period as heating is rarely if ever required in April, May or June. 

I would say it is far from a shambles, the price cap has been announced on schedule and that schedule is well known and clearly laid out. The government has stated that the EPG will rise to £3k, there has been nothing from Hunt or Sunak that indicates that they intend to suspend that rise. They may decide that the electorate need an additional bribe ahead of an election but it would be far better to either not borrow the additional £2.6 billion or to use it to improve education funding, electrifying railways in the North, fixing the potholes in the roads or for more police.

ariarnia

Mstty said:

@ariarnia

It's a good question to pose and not one that can be answered with the swipe of some keys on my keyboard as the question and answer is too complex, rich and variable it will send this into a non ending debate.

I will add that line will be drawn somewhere maybe at £2500 or £3000 or maybe somewhere in between. There will always be some section of the population worse off wherever that line is and in more need than another so the question posed is impossible.to answer sadly but the lowered and lower it's set the less households will learn about their energy usage and cutting back imo.

I do however think this is a great PR opportunity for the conservative government to pull a rabbit out of the hat so I would be surprised if they chose £3000 EPG.

What would you do?

i dont have the details the chancellor has and agree its a complicated question but cant help but feel some of the comments made by some who support the increase are dismissive and patronising of those who are and have been struggling. 

i posted on the other thread that as the guarentee is expected to be a lot cheaper than budgeted for then i think it would remove a lot of anxiety from a lot of people who are concerend about energy prices AS PART OF the wider problems with the economy/inflation/cost of living and world afairs if they kept it where it was.

a lot of people have pointed out how close to the actual cap (and under the cap) the cost is supposed to be over the year so on the other side of that is how over the year it wont actually cost the goverment all that much while not adding yet another stick to already breaking (mental and metaphorical) backs.

yes we can spend that cash on other things and ive already said i dont have a problem with it if thats what they do but i think we shouldn't dismiss the people what choice is going to hurt by saying its as simple as 'eating cold food' when some of those people are struggling to eat reguarly at all without food bank help already. 

ariarnia

MattMattMattUK said:

What_time_is_it said:

If you were in control of the Government money machine and could see that energy wholesale prices are falling would you make an announcement now or leave it until as late as possible?  Personally, I am not sure that the EPG is required given that everyone’s monthly energy bill will fall from Spring through to Autumn. If the Government has any spare cash then there are other key priorities that need to be funded: not least, the Defence budget.

I would weigh up the trade off between providing certainty and ensuring the best possible decision is taken. 
I'm not convinced that the government is valuing clarity and certainty at all regarding energy prices, and this is having a negative effect on people's ability to understand and have faith in the current system.
It's a shambles.

I would say it is far from a shambles, the price cap has been announced on schedule and that schedule is well known and clearly laid out. The government has stated that the EPG will rise to £3k, there has been nothing from Hunt or Sunak that indicates that they intend to suspend that rise. 

the other side of that is that if they have decided and 'will not be moved' on it then theres no reason they couldnt have published the new unit rates today within an hour or so of the anouncement. i expected them to (to hide it under the brexit anouncement) so they could still be mulling it over. 

superkoopauk

ariarnia said:

the other side of that is that if they have decided and 'will not be moved' on it then theres no reason they couldnt have published the new unit rates today within an hour or so of the anouncement. i expected them to (to hide it under the brexit anouncement) so they could still be mulling it over. 

It would take a government department a lot longer than an hour to calculate the EPG rates and go through all the levels of checking required.  I doubt they had any advance notice of the rates from Ofgem either.

But government have known this will be the situation for a while - if they were going to change the EPG support they should of announced their intentions a lot earlier (or at least Jeremy Hunt shouldn't of dismissed it in interview).

ariarnia

superkoopauk said:

ariarnia said:

the other side of that is that if they have decided and 'will not be moved' on it then theres no reason they couldnt have published the new unit rates today within an hour or so of the anouncement. i expected them to (to hide it under the brexit anouncement) so they could still be mulling it over. 

It would take a government department a lot longer than an hour to calculate the EPG rates and go through all the levels of checking required.  I doubt they had any advance notice of the rates from Ofgem either.

But government have known this will be the situation for a while - if they were going to change the EPG support they should of announced their intentions a lot earlier (or at least Jeremy Hunt shouldn't of dismissed it in interview).

why would you think that? there a non-ministerial goverment body and the energy minster apoints there ceo. there job is to implement goverment policy. i would expect them to talk to each other before an important anouncement like this. 

michaels

ariarnia said:

Mstty said:

@ariarnia

It's a good question to pose and not one that can be answered with the swipe of some keys on my keyboard as the question and answer is too complex, rich and variable it will send this into a non ending debate.

I will add that line will be drawn somewhere maybe at £2500 or £3000 or maybe somewhere in between. There will always be some section of the population worse off wherever that line is and in more need than another so the question posed is impossible.to answer sadly but the lowered and lower it's set the less households will learn about their energy usage and cutting back imo.

I do however think this is a great PR opportunity for the conservative government to pull a rabbit out of the hat so I would be surprised if they chose £3000 EPG.

What would you do?

i dont have the details the chancellor has and agree its a complicated question but cant help but feel some of the comments made by some who support the increase are dismissive and patronising of those who are and have been struggling. 

i posted on the other thread that as the guarentee is expected to be a lot cheaper than budgeted for then i think it would remove a lot of anxiety from a lot of people who are concerend about energy prices AS PART OF the wider problems with the economy/inflation/cost of living and world afairs if they kept it where it was.

a lot of people have pointed out how close to the actual cap (and under the cap) the cost is supposed to be over the year so on the other side of that is how over the year it wont actually cost the goverment all that much while not adding yet another stick to already breaking (mental and metaphorical) backs.

yes we can spend that cash on other things and ive already said i dont have a problem with it if thats what they do but i think we shouldn't dismiss the people what choice is going to hurt by saying its as simple as 'eating cold food' when some of those people are struggling to eat regularly at all without food bank help already. 

But more than half of a reduction to 2.5k would go to rich people (Rishi's swimming pool for example), surely it would be better to target support towards those who need it?

ariarnia

michaels said:

ariarnia said:

Mstty said:

@ariarnia

It's a good question to pose and not one that can be answered with the swipe of some keys on my keyboard as the question and answer is too complex, rich and variable it will send this into a non ending debate.

I will add that line will be drawn somewhere maybe at £2500 or £3000 or maybe somewhere in between. There will always be some section of the population worse off wherever that line is and in more need than another so the question posed is impossible.to answer sadly but the lowered and lower it's set the less households will learn about their energy usage and cutting back imo.

I do however think this is a great PR opportunity for the conservative government to pull a rabbit out of the hat so I would be surprised if they chose £3000 EPG.

What would you do?

i dont have the details the chancellor has and agree its a complicated question but cant help but feel some of the comments made by some who support the increase are dismissive and patronising of those who are and have been struggling. 

i posted on the other thread that as the guarentee is expected to be a lot cheaper than budgeted for then i think it would remove a lot of anxiety from a lot of people who are concerend about energy prices AS PART OF the wider problems with the economy/inflation/cost of living and world afairs if they kept it where it was.

a lot of people have pointed out how close to the actual cap (and under the cap) the cost is supposed to be over the year so on the other side of that is how over the year it wont actually cost the goverment all that much while not adding yet another stick to already breaking (mental and metaphorical) backs.

yes we can spend that cash on other things and ive already said i dont have a problem with it if thats what they do but i think we shouldn't dismiss the people what choice is going to hurt by saying its as simple as 'eating cold food' when some of those people are struggling to eat regularly at all without food bank help already. 

But more than half of a reduction to 2.5k would go to rich people (Rishi's swimming pool for example), surely it would be better to target support towards those who need it?

sure. 1% at the top and 1% at the bottom. but like i said what about the people who are in the middle and dont qualify for the 'extra' support but are struggling both on paper but also with the extra stress of yet another thing? 

rishi wont notice a few extra pence added or taken away but they will. 

superkoopauk

ariarnia said:

superkoopauk said:

ariarnia said:

the other side of that is that if they have decided and 'will not be moved' on it then theres no reason they couldnt have published the new unit rates today within an hour or so of the anouncement. i expected them to (to hide it under the brexit anouncement) so they could still be mulling it over. 

It would take a government department a lot longer than an hour to calculate the EPG rates and go through all the levels of checking required.  I doubt they had any advance notice of the rates from Ofgem either.

But government have known this will be the situation for a while - if they were going to change the EPG support they should of announced their intentions a lot earlier (or at least Jeremy Hunt shouldn't of dismissed it in interview).

why would you think that? there a non-ministerial goverment body and the energy minster apoints there ceo. there job is to implement goverment policy. i would expect them to talk to each other before an important anouncement like this. 

I would guess Ofgem only finalised the cap level late on Friday.  It goes back to your point that if government had known in advance then why couldn't they get the rates out today?  

savers_united

I think they will keep the £3k EPG, we are still a year away from a GE, Gas usage will be low from April onwards and by July cap prices should be below the EPG anyhow. If prices do spike again or extra support needed for the vulnerable this winter then they have money ready, and it will be at a time when people need it most. The money at the minute can be better spent improving other visible services that the electorate will go for.