How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

MovingForwards

@BOWFER I don't need to do research as an EV is not viable for my circumstances. I typically spend under £1k buying a small car, which is cheap to run, maintain and keep on the road and it's worked well for the last 20 years.

I did genuinely have a conversation with my OH's family when they were upgrading their car. They said about maybe getting an EV and I suggested going halves on the cost of fitting the charging point to their home, as that would open up the option of an EV for me in the future, if we remain in this flat. They didn't opt for an EV this time.

The only reason I joined in this chat was the whole "how can someone afford an EV on a £20k salary", as in reality they can't.

Committing to £255pm is a lot of money. committing to less than £100 to run an existing car, where it's already accounted for within  monthly budget, is a lot easier. 

Until costs come down a lot many of us won't make the change as we cannot afford it.

Herzlos

Thesaltmustflow said:

I know my car isn't as fuel economical as an EV, I've said that but comparing an ICE idling with an EV stopped is chalk and cheese imo. The S/S technology 'helps' me with fuel efficiency but doesn't compare favourably with an EV,s capabilities but I still believe my car is not at it's most inefficient sitting idling as I avoid this as much as possible.

It's of course more profound than that. Even with S/S technology, it only stops when you're in idle with your feet off the pedals - a complete stop. An EV will essentially stop the instant you stop moving.

Then there's regenerative braking - with an ICE vehicle you waste fuel every time you use the brakes. With an EV the braking energy goes back into the battery. So in horrible stop/start congestion traffic an EV uses even less battery than you'd expect.


I reckon, without doing the actual maths. A diesel car will run out of range faster than an EV in pretty much any traffic jam.

Herzlos

Sea_Shell said:

So are EVs, whilst stationary, effectively "off" if you're not using heating/cooling/radio* etc. ?

The motor only spins up when you press the throttle?

Yeah, it's like a drill (but bigger). It's only drawing power when it's spinning, or any ancilleries are running (radio, heater, alarm, etc), so will be consuming almost no power stationary.
An ICE vehicle will be burning some fuel to idle, or have stopped and be draining the tiny starter battery.

Grumpy_chap

Thesaltmustflow said:

I still believe my car is not at it's most inefficient sitting idling as I avoid this as much as possible.

Ye cannae change the laws of physics.

Any ICE car, absolutely is at its most inefficient sitting idling.  You may avoid that as much as possible, but the simple fact remains that when the car is sitting idling it is achieving zero mpg and you cannot get any lower.

I suppose the fact it is when the car is most inefficient accounts for why you avoid it as much as possible and why development effort went towards stop-start functionality.

Username03725

BOWFER said:

You're assuming the 3.5 miles route is able to be cycled.
It's not  as half of it is along a bypass.
So I'd have to take a diversion adding a fair bit onto my journey.
And that new route would be life-in-your-hands cycling along very narrow roads.
Funny how people assume cycling is always an option for short distances....

Oh no, just typical, bloody typical. I suggested that for some short commutes etc cycling could be an occasional alternative and I've found the only guy in the UK whose home and job are separated by a bypass that doesn't permit cycling and the only alternative is a completely unsuitable narrow road that's so narrow that it would be suicide to ride on it. Gah. Typical.. kuh eh? Kuh.

Fwiw when I worked I cycled 2-3 days a week because it was fun. 21 miles e/w but fun. Some of it was on a major A road, some  on narrow lanes. I never had a sense of it being life in their hands territory, and I was never even killed, not once, not even close. 

The thing about cycling is that the more people there are that do it, the safer it becomes. Instead of us each being some anonymous nut job that chooses to ride a bike when there's a perfectly good car that can do the journey in style, the cyclist you see out on the road becomes someone you know.  It's your mate from the pub, or your neighbour, or the guy in Accounts that you have a natter about the football with over a coffee occasionally, or your aunt, or the nice woman that you quite like who your wife chats to when she's picking the kids up from school. We become people like you, me, him over there, your mate's daughter over the road who you keep an eye out for to make sure she gets home safe after her p/t time job in the evenings. Once you stop seeing reasons not to cycle and find an excuse to use the bike it snowballs and everybody benefits, unless you're the guy who lives at one end of a bypass, works at the other and there's only an unclassified white as an alternative. 

Afterthought.
That 21 mile e/w ride was fun, but I occasionally wished it was easier. 3½ miles would have been too short but there was an optimum commute of about 8-14 miles that would have been great, far enough to get  properly warmed up and to blitz it from time to time but not so far that it was a massive commitment. A job a handful of miles away that allowed a mazy route that came to 10 miles or less would have been perfect. 3½-4½ minutes per mile is where you get to, so 8 miles, about half an hour. Magic.

ontheroad1970

BOWFER said:

Basically this whole thread seems to be frustration that the OP can't get a XC60 size electric vehicle in his budget just now
Couldn't the whole thread be wrapped up with a quick "tough"....?
Things are changing quickly though. the Chinese are going to be hammering the market with more affordable EVs very soon.
Of course, we'll then have the 'badge snobbery' thing...
"I'm not driving a Lifan" etc.etc.

Have you paid off your mortgage already?  Then 20k pa will be far more comfortable for you than for some that haven't.  

Thesaltmustflow

Herzlos said:

Thesaltmustflow said:

I know my car isn't as fuel economical as an EV, I've said that but comparing an ICE idling with an EV stopped is chalk and cheese imo. The S/S technology 'helps' me with fuel efficiency but doesn't compare favourably with an EV,s capabilities but I still believe my car is not at it's most inefficient sitting idling as I avoid this as much as possible.

It's of course more profound than that. Even with S/S technology, it only stops when you're in idle with your feet off the pedals - a complete stop. An EV will essentially stop the instant you stop moving.

Then there's regenerative braking - with an ICE vehicle you waste fuel every time you use the brakes. With an EV the braking energy goes back into the battery. So in horrible stop/start congestion traffic an EV uses even less battery than you'd expect.


I reckon, without doing the actual maths. A diesel car will run out of range faster than an EV in pretty much any traffic jam.

I was lead to believe different and I'm sure there was a thread about 'coasting' on here a while back. My understanding is a modern ICE doesn't use any fuel when your on the brakes and off the accelerator, something to do with the fuel injection system. 

I could of course be completely wrong but It's what I was told a while back, FWIW I have one of those fuel mpg gauges on my new car and when I'm accelerating it's all over the place, anything from 28-55mpg BUT when I let off the accelerator it jumps to 999mpg, could be just a gimmick thing but currently doing it the traditional way of miles covered v litres of fuel used I'm getting around 55-60mpg and this includes lots of town driving so not too bad methinks. Happy to be corrected on the fuel injection system using no fuel when coasting theory.

Your obviously correct regarding running out of Diesel compared to an EV but I'm happy with my 9K purchase with a decent mpg and very low emissions that I'm sure I'll get a fair few years use out of. No leasing or finance for me.

BOWFER

MovingForwards said:

The only reason I joined in this chat was the whole "how can someone afford an EV on a £20k salary", as in reality they can't.

I can't absolutely they can any more than you can absolutely say they can't.
But several people on here have demonstrated how you can get into an EV relatively cheaply, it's not the preserve of the wealthy.

BOWFER

Username03725 said:

BOWFER said:

You're assuming the 3.5 miles route is able to be cycled.
It's not  as half of it is along a bypass.
So I'd have to take a diversion adding a fair bit onto my journey.
And that new route would be life-in-your-hands cycling along very narrow roads.
Funny how people assume cycling is always an option for short distances....

Oh no, just typical, bloody typical. I suggested that for some short commutes etc cycling could be an occasional alternative and I've found the only guy in the UK whose home and job are separated by a bypass that doesn't permit cycling and the only alternative is a completely unsuitable narrow road that's so narrow that it would be suicide to ride on it. Gah. Typical.. kuh eh? Kuh.

Fwiw when I worked I cycled 2-3 days a week because it was fun. 21 miles e/w but fun. Some of it was on a major A road, some  on narrow lanes. I never had a sense of it being life in their hands territory, and I was never even killed, not once, not even close. 

The thing about cycling is that the more people there are that do it, the safer it becomes. Instead of us each being some anonymous nut job that chooses to ride a bike when there's a perfectly good car that can do the journey in style, the cyclist you see out on the road becomes someone you know.  It's your mate from the pub, or your neighbour, or the guy in Accounts that you have a natter about the football with over a coffee occasionally, or your aunt, or the nice woman that you quite like who your wife chats to when she's picking the kids up from school. We become people like you, me, him over there, your mate's daughter over the road who you keep an eye out for to make sure she gets home safe after her p/t time job in the evenings.Once you stop seeing reasons not to cycle and find an excuse to use the bike it snowballs and everybody benefits, unless you're the guy who lives at one end of a bypass, works at the other and there's only an unclassified white as an alternative. 

Afterthought.
That 21 mile e/w ride was fun, but I occasionally wished it was easier. 3½ miles would have been too short but there was an optimum commute of about 8-14 miles that would have been great, far enough to get  properly warmed up and to blitz it from time to time but not so far that it was a massive commitment. A job a handful of miles away that allowed a mazy route that came to 10 miles or less would have been perfect. 3½-4½ minutes per mile is where you get to, so 8 miles, about half an hour. Magic.

You'll just have to accept it's really not a pushbike friendly commute at all (no clue why they didn't include pushbike access on the bypass that was only opened 3 years ago, presumably cost v demand).
I did also forgot to say I can't stand pushbikes, I've not been on one since I was 11 and don't intend changing that. :-)
Motorbikes, now you're talking and I'm very interested in electric ones.
But, for my commute, not really practical as by the time I put on protective gear and helmet I can be halfway here in a car.
No real traffic problems to bypass at all.

BOWFER

ontheroad1970 said:

BOWFER said:

Basically this whole thread seems to be frustration that the OP can't get a XC60 size electric vehicle in his budget just now
Couldn't the whole thread be wrapped up with a quick "tough"....?
Things are changing quickly though. the Chinese are going to be hammering the market with more affordable EVs very soon.
Of course, we'll then have the 'badge snobbery' thing...
"I'm not driving a Lifan" etc.etc.

Have you paid off your mortgage already?  Then 20k pa will be far more comfortable for you than for some that haven't.  

What's the point of your post, especially against the quote you've chosen to tag onto.
Very random.