How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

Grumpy_chap

Sea_Shell said:

So are EVs, whilst stationary, effectively "off" if you're not using heating/cooling/radio* etc. ?

The motor only spins up when you press the throttle?



* Although I realise that the "media centres" on modern cars are never really "off" like an old school radio/cd/aux.

Yes

and Yes.

MovingForwards said:

Looking quickly online at a Leaf it's £255 plus electric.

My car it's £95.83 per month for petrol, service, MOT, insurance.

I don't want to say that another £150 or so per month can be magically made affordable but that cost comparison is not a fair one.

The £95 per month for the ICE car is running costs only.  Somewhere, or at some time, the embedded cost of acquisition has to be accounted for.  It may well be that the money is now fully spent and no longer in the conscious mind for costs of motoring, or is even in mind as a "bonus" when the car is eventually sold or scrapped and you get a bit back.

Conversely, the £255 for the Leaf is cost of (temporary) acquisition only and ignores the running costs of which energy (fuel) and service should be lower than an ICE car.

The only way the £255 for a Leaf would be fairly compared with an ICE car would be to compare taking the use of a brand new equivalent ICE car and considering estimates for all costs in both cases.

Thesaltmustflow

BOWFER said:

MovingForwards said:

Looking quickly online at a Leaf it's £255 plus electric.

My car it's £95.83 per month for petrol, service, MOT, insurance.

I don't have a drive or garage, therefore no access to privately plug in an EV. Getting stuck in traffic on the way from work could see me getting stranded and running out of charge on a used EV. 

I'm on a lower income, what do I sacrifice to fund the difference of £159.17 each month? My extra  pension payment? My extra mortgage payment? Saving for when I have a home repair bill, need to replace something or if I lost my job? Maybe I could trim a bit off my food shopping? 

Maybe if family do put an EV point in their home and I've paid the mortgage off, it might be viable, but not at the moment.

This is the bit I'm interested in.
It seems to be a common misconception that EVs can run out of battery in traffic jams (Daily Mail nonsense).
Petrol/diesel cars are at their most inefficient when sitting idling, electric cars aren't.
I've seen me sitting for an hour waiting for our kids with the radio and heater on, barely using 1% of the battery.

I don't believe my Bluehdi with S/S technology is at it's 'most' inefficient when I'm sat in traffic but I take your point regarding electric. 

Jenni_D

But it won't be "off" for an extended period - unless you turn off the ignition - the S/S mechanism will fire the engine to prevent the battery draining too much.

Thesaltmustflow

Jenni_D said:

But it won't be "off" for an extended period - unless you turn off the ignition - the S/S mechanism will fire the engine to prevent the battery draining too much.

Yes I am aware of that but I still believe it's not (as stated) at it's most inefficient in that scenario and if heaven forbid I'm stuck in traffic for an hour or more (motorway pile up etc) I'm pretty sure I will manage to turn off the ignition..

BOWFER

Thesaltmustflow said:

Jenni_D said:

But it won't be "off" for an extended period - unless you turn off the ignition - the S/S mechanism will fire the engine to prevent the battery draining too much.

Yes I am aware of that but I still believe it's not (as stated) at it's most inefficient in that scenario and if heaven forbid I'm stuck in traffic for an hour or more (motorway pile up etc) I'm pretty sure I will manage to turn off the ignition..

And turning off the ignition turns off the heater....
This is the scare story that did the rounds when we had the bad snow, that people would find themselves stuck in dead battery EVs and DIE OF THE COLD!
It was just utter nonsense....

BOWFER

MovingForwards said:

Because reading this thread, the distance an old battery can go and knowing how far I commute each day, could drop me in the poo.

Remember, I'm one that can't afford the new EV, with the great battery that goes for miles, but an old one with a worn battery, and I don't have a charging point at my flat.

My knowledge spans to using a phone, laptop and other irrelevant items on a daily basis, seeing the battery run down and if not charged it cuts out. I haven't looked into EV's as they're not being cost effective for me or my circumstances.

As for being a DM reader, I wouldn't even being it into house for my cat to pee on.

You need to do more EV research and not equate them with laptops.
There's no reason why you buying a used EV would mean a "worn battery"
The SOH (state of health) of the battery is easily checked using a bluetooth dongle plugged into the OBD port.
Does 150000 miles without much battery loss suit you?
200000 miles?
400000 miles?
These are all provable examples of mileages EVs have done with negligible range loss.

Thesaltmustflow

BOWFER said:

Thesaltmustflow said:

Jenni_D said:

But it won't be "off" for an extended period - unless you turn off the ignition - the S/S mechanism will fire the engine to prevent the battery draining too much.

Yes I am aware of that but I still believe it's not (as stated) at it's most inefficient in that scenario and if heaven forbid I'm stuck in traffic for an hour or more (motorway pile up etc) I'm pretty sure I will manage to turn off the ignition..

And turning off the ignition turns off the heater....
This is the scare story that did the rounds when we had the bad snow, that people would find themselves stuck in dead battery EVs and DIE OF THE COLD!
It was just utter nonsense....

Thankfully I don't buy into scare stories so doesn't affect me but on a more serious note I do know that majority of EV's will wipe the floor with my 'clean' diesel regarding fuel economy but I'm happy with what I've got until I make the leap into an EV.

It's a very interesting thread for people (like me) who have no idea how EV's work in the real world but are happy to get involved at some stage in the future.

Grumpy_chap

Thesaltmustflow said:

Jenni_D said:

But it won't be "off" for an extended period - unless you turn off the ignition - the S/S mechanism will fire the engine to prevent the battery draining too much.

Yes I am aware of that but I still believe it's not (as stated) at it's most inefficient in that scenario and if heaven forbid I'm stuck in traffic for an hour or more (motorway pile up etc) I'm pretty sure I will manage to turn off the ignition..

I think stuck in traffic (covering zero miles distance) must be the most inefficient that a motive power source can be.

I am sure you will agree that travelling at 56 mph in top gear is more efficient (more mpg) than travelling at 75 mph in top gear (less mpg).

Travelling at 56 mph in top gear is more efficient (more mpg) than travelling at 56 mph in first gear (less mpg), but 56 mph in first gear is still some mpg.

Sitting stationary with the engine idling and the hand brake on (solid traffic motorway pile-up) is achieving zero mpg.  You cannot achieve lower than zero mpg under any circumstances.  If the car is progressing at all, then you are achieving at least something mpg.

In fact, I am now going to conclude, having followed my own line of reasoning that an ICE is absolutely at it's most inefficient when idling stationery as 100% of energy consumed achieves zero primary benefit.

BOWFER

Grumpy_chap said:

Thesaltmustflow said:

Jenni_D said:

But it won't be "off" for an extended period - unless you turn off the ignition - the S/S mechanism will fire the engine to prevent the battery draining too much.

Yes I am aware of that but I still believe it's not (as stated) at it's most inefficient in that scenario and if heaven forbid I'm stuck in traffic for an hour or more (motorway pile up etc) I'm pretty sure I will manage to turn off the ignition..

I think stuck in traffic (covering zero miles distance) must be the most inefficient that a motive power source can be.

I am sure you will agree that travelling at 56 mph in top gear is more efficient (more mpg) than travelling at 75 mph in top gear (less mpg).

Travelling at 56 mph in top gear is more efficient (more mpg) than travelling at 56 mph in first gear (less mpg), but 56 mph in first gear is still some mpg.

Sitting stationary with the engine idling and the hand brake on (solid traffic motorway pile-up) is achieving zero mpg.  You cannot achieve lower than zero mpg under any circumstances.  If the car is progressing at all, then you are achieving at least something mpg.

In fact, I am now going to conclude, having followed my own line of reasoning that an ICE is absolutely at it's most inefficient when idling stationery as 100% of energy consumed achieves zero primary benefit.

This is where ICE and EV cars completely differ, and you've hit the nail on the head.
An ICE isn't efficient at low speeds, becomes more efficient at certain speeds and them becomes less efficient again.
EV's are far simpler, it's completely linear - faster you go, the more battery is used....end of.

Thesaltmustflow

Grumpy_chap said:

Thesaltmustflow said:

Jenni_D said:

But it won't be "off" for an extended period - unless you turn off the ignition - the S/S mechanism will fire the engine to prevent the battery draining too much.

Yes I am aware of that but I still believe it's not (as stated) at it's most inefficient in that scenario and if heaven forbid I'm stuck in traffic for an hour or more (motorway pile up etc) I'm pretty sure I will manage to turn off the ignition..

I think stuck in traffic (covering zero miles distance) must be the most inefficient that a motive power source can be.

I am sure you will agree that travelling at 56 mph in top gear is more efficient (more mpg) than travelling at 75 mph in top gear (less mpg).

Travelling at 56 mph in top gear is more efficient (more mpg) than travelling at 56 mph in first gear (less mpg), but 56 mph in first gear is still some mpg.

Sitting stationary with the engine idling and the hand brake on (solid traffic motorway pile-up) is achieving zero mpg.  You cannot achieve lower than zero mpg under any circumstances.  If the car is progressing at all, then you are achieving at least something mpg.

In fact, I am now going to conclude, having followed my own line of reasoning that an ICE is absolutely at it's most inefficient when idling stationery as 100% of energy consumed achieves zero primary benefit.

What?

I never said I would sit there idling with the handbrake on I said I would switch my engine off in that situation so =using NO fuel, obviously I will use some fuel if I'm inching forward every 2-10 minutes but then again an EV will use some battery to inch forwards too every 2-10 minutes.

I know my car isn't as fuel economical as an EV, I've said that but comparing an ICE idling with an EV stopped is chalk and cheese imo. The S/S technology 'helps' me with fuel efficiency but doesn't compare favourably with an EV,s capabilities but I still believe my car is not at it's most inefficient sitting idling as I avoid this as much as possible.

Just out of interest I have sat a couple of times (up to now as car is relatively new to me) for around 20 minutes with radio/heater on recently in ECO mode and the engine didn't restart until I restarted it, there's not much more I can do regarding fuel efficiency until I move to EV and I can live with that.