How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

BOWFER

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

Calling the Tesla figure irrelevant is just weird, it's literally the first time it's happened that an electric car has outsold anything else.

It has happened several times.  It is down to the logistics of how Tesla ship the cars.

What has shipping got to do with sales?
They don't wait for a boat to arrive before selling.
Sales is people buying the car, not necessarily obtaining the car.

Herzlos

Grumpy_chap said:

We simply do not have enough data to say that either way - the verification of true choice can only be established if the market is unconstrained.

The component supply issues may well favour EV over ICE - suppose you have one chip and two customers. 
Customer one will pay you £20k for an ICE hatchback.
Customer two will pay you £30k for an equivalent EV hatchback.
The manufacturer will favour the highest return on that chip.

The Tesla figures are irrelevant and happens regularly as it is to do with the ship movements more than anything else.

That's not quite how it works, an EV will have many more chips in it, many of them different.

So suppose you have 1 of chip A and it can go into an ICE for £20k or an EV for £30k, but the EV also relies on chip B which you don't have. Do you hold chip A for the EV until you can get chip B and sell it, or do you put it in the ICE and get the order out of the factory?

This list: https://www.astonvauxhall.co.uk/news/vauxhall-factory-order-lead-times/ is showing the same lead time for the ICE/EV variants of the Corsa and Mokka, so I don't see any evidence that the market is being artificially constrained in terms of ICE/EV at all. It all seems to be down to demand, which seems reasonable - more people working from home or doing lower miles means the lower range on EV's isn't an issue, EV's attract much lower BIK for those who are still getting new cars via work schemes and so on.

Even before the covid supply chain issues, worldwide demand for EV's was exploding.

Grumpy_chap

BOWFER said:

What has shipping got to do with sales?
They don't wait for a boat to arrive before selling.
Sales is people buying the car, not necessarily obtaining the car.

The sales figures that are published relate to the vehicle registration date.  Can't register the vehicle if it is not here.
This is a widely known factor for Tesla, so they topped the sales in September.

Also in June 2021:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-07/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-june-2021/

And December 2020:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-01/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-december-2020/

It truly is a quirk of the way Tesla ship cars.
A car is only considered "sold" once it is registered / delivered.  So, an order is not a sale in the context of the official figures.  Conversely a car can be sold without a customer order / sale.

BOWFER

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

What has shipping got to do with sales?
They don't wait for a boat to arrive before selling.
Sales is people buying the car, not necessarily obtaining the car.

The sales figures that are published relate to the vehicle registration date.  Can't register the vehicle if it is not here.
This is a widely known factor for Tesla, so they topped the sales in September.

Also in June 2021:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-07/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-june-2021/

And December 2020:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-01/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-december-2020/

It truly is a quirk of the way Tesla ship cars.
A car is only considered "sold" once it is registered / delivered.  So, an order is not a sale in the context of the official figures.  Conversely a car can be sold without a customer order / sale.

You've said it's happened before with Tesla.
I can't find any evidence of Tesla topping sales charts before (of any engine type).
Can you supply?

Grumpy_chap

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

What has shipping got to do with sales?
They don't wait for a boat to arrive before selling.
Sales is people buying the car, not necessarily obtaining the car.

The sales figures that are published relate to the vehicle registration date.  Can't register the vehicle if it is not here.
This is a widely known factor for Tesla, so they topped the sales in September.

Also in June 2021:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-07/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-june-2021/

And December 2020:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-01/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-december-2020/

It truly is a quirk of the way Tesla ship cars.
A car is only considered "sold" once it is registered / delivered.  So, an order is not a sale in the context of the official figures.  Conversely a car can be sold without a customer order / sale.

You've said it's happened before with Tesla.
I can't find any evidence of Tesla topping sales charts before (of any engine type).
Can you supply?

I already gave those links

BOWFER

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

What has shipping got to do with sales?
They don't wait for a boat to arrive before selling.
Sales is people buying the car, not necessarily obtaining the car.

The sales figures that are published relate to the vehicle registration date.  Can't register the vehicle if it is not here.
This is a widely known factor for Tesla, so they topped the sales in September.

Also in June 2021:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-07/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-june-2021/

And December 2020:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-01/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-december-2020/

It truly is a quirk of the way Tesla ship cars.
A car is only considered "sold" once it is registered / delivered.  So, an order is not a sale in the context of the official figures.  Conversely a car can be sold without a customer order / sale.

You've said it's happened before with Tesla.
I can't find any evidence of Tesla topping sales charts before (of any engine type).
Can you supply?

I already gave those links

This might clarify things a bit.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/25/22744481/tesla-model-3-tops-sales-charts-europe-electric-vehicles

MX5huggy

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

What has shipping got to do with sales?
They don't wait for a boat to arrive before selling.
Sales is people buying the car, not necessarily obtaining the car.

The sales figures that are published relate to the vehicle registration date.  Can't register the vehicle if it is not here.
This is a widely known factor for Tesla, so they topped the sales in September.

Also in June 2021:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-07/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-june-2021/

And December 2020:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/car-market-1/2021-01/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-december-2020/

It truly is a quirk of the way Tesla ship cars.
A car is only considered "sold" once it is registered / delivered.  So, an order is not a sale in the context of the official figures.  Conversely a car can be sold without a customer order / sale.

You've said it's happened before with Tesla.
I can't find any evidence of Tesla topping sales charts before (of any engine type).
Can you supply?

I already gave those links

This might clarify things a bit.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/25/22744481/tesla-model-3-tops-sales-charts-europe-electric-vehicles

Tesla’s “sales” (I think we’ve established we are using registrations) are very lumpy month to month in August they did not make the top 10 and the M3 was not even the best selling BEV (that was the ID3). This isn’t to say Tesla’s sales figures aren’t impressive but pick single months is not a valid way of looking at them. https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2021-august-europe-car-sales-and-market-analysis/attachment/top-ten-best-selling-cars-in-europe-in-august-2021/

BOWFER

MX5huggy said:

This isn’t to say Tesla’s sales figures aren’t impressive 

They're certainly worrying VW, and that's before the German Gigafactory is opened.
Can't help feeling VW have shot themselves in the foot with the ID3 though.
It's just plain odd looking.

[Deleted User]

BOWFER said:

MX5huggy said:

This isn’t to say Tesla’s sales figures aren’t impressive 

They're certainly worrying VW, and that's before the German Gigafactory is opened.
Can't help feeling VW have shot themselves in the foot with the ID3 though.
It's just plain odd looking.

I saw one today and thought it looked like a skoda Fabia. 

Jenni_D

Deleted_User said:

BOWFER said:

MX5huggy said:

This isn’t to say Tesla’s sales figures aren’t impressive 

They're certainly worrying VW, and that's before the German Gigafactory is opened.
Can't help feeling VW have shot themselves in the foot with the ID3 though.
It's just plain odd looking.

I saw one today and thought it looked like a skoda Fabia. 

I've seen one recently and thought it had a familiar look - now you mention the Fabia; yes, I can see what you mean.