How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

Herzlos

henry24 said:

I'm not out to cause trouble here but I do think that if electric vehicles are so good why have they been forced on people, give people the choice 

No-one is being forced, but already ICE car sales are plummeting (down 50% YoY) and EV sales are exploding. Eventually, the world will have left you behind and you'll need to adapt.

henry24 said:

Herzlos said:

henry24 said:

What I meant about until they worked is I want to be able to drive into a charging point and 5 minutes later drive away with 600 miles of driving available just like I can with my diesel 

How often do you need to drive 600 miles with only a 5 minute break?

Not very often but I live just south of the humber Bridge and in the 7 months I've owned this car I've driven to Edinburgh, Bristol, Glasgow, all round North Wales and still my normal miles around 19000 in 7 months 

So that's maybe 5 times in 7 months, and you visited all of these places *without stopping*? I'm lucky if I can do 200 miles without needing a pee.

Also, if if you don't believe in climate change, you must appreciate that the oil reserves are finite, right? At some point, climate aside, we're going to run out of oil given that it's used for petrol, diesel, plastics, electricity and so on. As oilfields run dry we need to move to more and more expensive ones.

So at some point we'll need to move away from diesel anyway.

Herzlos

BOWFER said:

Assuming he doesn't actually mean he wants to drive 600 miles in one go, he's then going at it from the convenience angle.
I.E. 600 miles allows him to only refill once a month or less.
Convenience was one of the biggest reasons for me getting one, doesn't get much more convenient than my own drive for refuelling.

I think you're right. I think this is a case of only needing to spend 5 minutes at a petrol station to get a month of driving rather than cross country driving.

I'd still reckon if you can charge at home electric is even more convenient because it takes a few seconds to plug in and you never need to divert to get to a petrol station because you can start every journey with a full charge.

Brie

I still come back to the problem of cost. 

The used EV I've looked (admittedly briefly) at aren't highly recommended (aka they won't last or be very expensive to maintain) and the thought is that maybe a used one will be a good idea in a couple/few more years.  I can't afford a new EV either buying it outright or on a monthly plan of some sort.  

Add to that that in my area at least charging points are very limited except in the posher bits of town - so those that live in terraced housing with no off road parking also don't have charging points at their local Aldi.  As far as I'm aware there are only 3  public charging points within at least 2 miles of me and those are in a Tesco car park that isn't accessible overnight.

And public transport is pitiful thus leaving - for many of us - ICEs as the only option.  

I'm hoping that this changes, the sooner, the better.

Grumpy_chap

Herzlos said:

No-one is being forced, but already ICE car sales are plummeting (down 50% YoY) and EV sales are exploding. 

These figures over the past year or so may not be reliable indicators as there is a significant supply constraint impacting total number of new vehicle registered.
No-one can say what the mix of ICE / EV sales would be with the supply constraints removed.

DevilsAdvocate1

WJB1971 said:

I have worked all my life and having done so have got to the point where I own a Volvo XC60 of which I am very fond, it isn't new, it is several years old but it is mine.

However, I accept there is need to go electric and would like to do so.

The nearest comparable vehicle all electric would be the Volvo XC40 but at round the £60k mark there is no way I can afford to make that change. Looking for a second hand SUV I might be able to afford it would be a Kia Soul, and with the best will in the world they are just not comparable vehicles.

The biggest problem then to ordinary people wanting to make the change and to try and be greener, is the cost to us, and because we cannot afford it, we have to accept having a smaller car not of our choice, or carry on polluting.

What about leasing ? I am sorry but if you think any of us earning 20k a year can afford to lease and manage the rest of life's living expenses then think again.

What about grants and such ? yes but we still have to find the rest of the money and most of us don't have it.

So those of us with least will end up driving a polluting car because we cannot afford to do otherwise. We will end up having to pay more and more for doing so, which will make finding the money to change even more impossible. We will be frowned upon for still driving such a car by those who can afford to go green.

Anyone got a solution ?

I think you're looking at it the wrong way round in a way.  We had a Mazda 5 which drank diesal like it was going out of fashion - I was putting £60 in every 6 days, so around £300 a month.  We decided to get a Nissan Leaf about 7 years ago.  We got a £5000 government grant (its now £3500) and various discounts.  Our monthly payment was £250 a month and we put about £500 deposit in.  So we ended up spending less as we no longer paid £300 a month for fuel.  Yes we didn't "Own" the car, but our monthly outgoings were lower.

MacPingu1986

Grumpy_chap said:

MacPingu1986 said:

around 66% of car journeys in the UK are under 5 miles. Average trip distances are less than 10 miles. 

There really ought to be a big "re-education" programme so that these very short journeys are not by car as the default mode of transport.  Fine if it is a considered need (e.g. carrying stuff), but not when it is just a single person.  One of the big wins from lockdown has been the number of short journeys I would have driven now on foot - often just as quick, far more pleasant and relaxing, and you'd be amazed what you can see and hear when not driving.

Oh I absolutely agree - for short journeys I always walk and cycle whenever I can - the bike in particular is absolutely brilliant and with a big backpack can carry a surprising amount of shopping and usually quicker than driving anyway once you factor in the faff of parking and traffic queues... (and almost always much more fun!)

DevilsAdvocate1

Just to add, there are other savings to be made with electric cars.  For example, some car parks are free if you're charging. Its often not advertised, so you have to ask.  Also, you don't pay road tax, so another annual saving.

henry24

Herzlos said:

BOWFER said:

Assuming he doesn't actually mean he wants to drive 600 miles in one go, he's then going at it from the convenience angle.
I.E. 600 miles allows him to only refill once a month or less.
Convenience was one of the biggest reasons for me getting one, doesn't get much more convenient than my own drive for refuelling.

I think you're right. I think this is a case of only needing to spend 5 minutes at a petrol station to get a month of driving rather than cross country driving.

I'd still reckon if you can charge at home electric is even more convenient because it takes a few seconds to plug in and you never need to divert to get to a petrol station because you can start every journey with a full charge.

If you read my posts you will see I've done 19000 miles in the last 7 months so I fill up slightly more than once a month 

henry24

Grumpy_chap said:

henry24 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

henry24 said:

I'm not against electric vehicles but think things should have stayed as they were until they worked and paying double for a car that will do a quarter of the miles per refill just isn't feasible for me 

henry24 said:

What I meant about until they worked is I want to be able to drive into a charging point and 5 minutes later drive away with 600 miles of driving available just like I can with my diesel 

EV's work perfectly fine.

Cost of entry the EV product is a challenge compared to ICE but, like-for-like, overall cost of ownership will usually work out competitive for the EV.

Range is also becoming far less of a concern now, to the extent that it should not be a limitation in anything but the extreme edge cases.
The best EV's have batteries at up to 100 kWh and that means 400 miles range.  If going further than that in a stint, then you'd need to stop for refreshment, so the energy top-up can be done at the same time and cause no inconvenience.

The EV will do that journey at an energy consumption of around 4 miles/kWh. 
An ICE would be an energy consumption of around 1.5 miles/kWh.

Perhaps you could tell me the electric vehicles with a 400 mile range that I can buy for £22000.

Where did I say you can?

I said that I had a car that would do 600 miles to a fill and that it cost £22000 against 100 for a electric and you said I could get one that would do 400 miles 

Herzlos

henry24 said:

Herzlos said:

BOWFER said:

Assuming he doesn't actually mean he wants to drive 600 miles in one go, he's then going at it from the convenience angle.
I.E. 600 miles allows him to only refill once a month or less.
Convenience was one of the biggest reasons for me getting one, doesn't get much more convenient than my own drive for refuelling.

I think you're right. I think this is a case of only needing to spend 5 minutes at a petrol station to get a month of driving rather than cross country driving.

I'd still reckon if you can charge at home electric is even more convenient because it takes a few seconds to plug in and you never need to divert to get to a petrol station because you can start every journey with a full charge.

If you read my posts you will see I've done 19000 miles in the last 7 months so I fill up slightly more than once a month 

That's the only part you have an issue with? So what if I change it to 5 minutes at a petrol station to get a week's worth of driving?

If anything, that makes a better case for the EV, because you're spending a lot of time at petrol stations pouring flammable liquid between containers