John Lennon PCN for stopping

KeithP

Rileymark1 said:

The date of issue on the claim form is 25th Jan and says the date of service is 5 days from said date , so i believe i have til 14th of Feb to respond.

With a Claim Issue Date of 25th January, you have until Monday 14th February to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 28th February 2022 to file your Defence.

That's nearly four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Coupon-mad

Hopefully you've looked around before posting about this stage and read the thread by @DisruptiveLad

Rileymark1

Hi All

Just a quick question , i am about to fill out and submit my Acknowledgment of Service following the advice on here then i will start to look at the Defence part. 
I received my first LBC from VCS on 24th of September 2021 and followed the advice on here and requested my SAR which i received via email on 17th of November 2021, but i also got another LBC from Elms Legal for the same case dated 1st of November 2021, should i have requested a SAR from Elms too as i didn't bother because i had already requested it from VCS regarding this case, and is it too late to request it now or will it just be the same documents that VCS have sent anyway?
Also back in November 2019 just after the alleged offence i sent an email to VCS requesting a copy of the Calibration certificate for the equipment used to capture my Vehicle but never received a reply, they also never mentioned it in the response to my appeal despite it mentioning the calibration certificate in my appeal document i sent.
Is this something i should chase up or would i be able to use the fact they haven't sent the requested document in my defence ?

Thanks 

Redx

You can email a SAR to any company DPO , including Elms etc , but the only useful reply tends to be from the claimant , Which I believe that you already have

VCS sent their data , Elms would send their data , I doubt it would help or have anything useful !

Chase it up , then use non receipt in either the defence or WS ( or both ? )

Rileymark1

Hi All,

I have submitted my Acknowledgement of Service and saved all my details/ passwords etc. Just logged in to check it and noticed my date of birth is blank. i am pretty sure i put it in but i'm worried now , should i contact them regarding this or will it be ok to leave that. All the other details are correct as in name , address , case number etc.

Also with regards to my defence, i have been reading the template and where it asks about driver i'm not sure what to do . Vcs are after me as the registered keeper as i failed to name my good lady as being the driver. I did however say in my appeal back in 2019 that my wife had pulled over to attend to our granddaughter who had vomited, although i never gave any names. Granddaughter was born with a cleft palate so this was more an emergency stop than a pre calculated one.

Do i just carry on as no driver named?

Also can i just ask the sort of time scale that it takes from submitting the defence to actually getting a court date.

Thanks

Umkomaas

Call the CCBC and clear up the DoB issue. Expect a long wait on the telephone. I don't know for sure, but I suspect your missing DoB isn't critical.  

Vcs are after me as the registered keeper as i failed to name XXXX as being the driver. 

Well don't do it then!  But, in fact, as court proceedings have commenced it's too late to name the driver, even if you wanted to. Additionally, and most importantly, as the LJLA road network is covered by byelaws, it is 'not relevant land' for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), which means there is no keeper liability. 

Now, if you think carefully about this, you can see the quandary that VCS are in - they can't hold the registered keeper liable (by law) and they don't know who the driver was. They are basically up a gum tree. You do need to edit any of your posts (particularly the one I've quoted from) to remove any possibly driver identification. 

No guarantees, but I honestly can't see this going all the way to a hearing, but you must jump through every hurdle rolled in front of you until (hopefully) you get a discontinuation by VCS. 

Rileymark1

Umkomaas said:

Call the CCBC and clear up the DoB issue. Expect a long wait on the telephone. I don't know for sure, but I suspect your missing DoB isn't critical.  

Vcs are after me as the registered keeper as i failed to name XXXX as being the driver. 

Well don't do it then!  But, in fact, as court proceedings have commenced it's too late to name the driver, even if you wanted to. Additionally, and most importantly, as the LJLA road network is covered by byelaws, it is 'not relevant land' for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), which means there is no keeper liability. 

So it doesn't matter that in my appeal i said i had asked my wife to collect me, as long as i haven't given her actual name on any of the letters they sent me.

Coupon-mad

It's great that you did that, because they KNEW early on that you were not the driver and they KNOW they have no lawful claim against you.

Show us your draft additions to the Template Defence.  It should include the fact you are not liable and why (it's not relevant land under the POFA) and facts about your granddaughter's medical emergency and that the Airport byelaws allow for stopping for medical emergencies, exactly like this.  And the byelaws have not been revoked and take precedence, as confirmed by the DLUHC's new Parking Code of Practice this week ((quote the bits about byelaws where it says contract law can't override them).

Rileymark1

Coupon-mad said:

It's great that you did that, because they KNEW early on that you were not the driver and they KNOW they have no lawful claim against you.

Show us your draft additions to the Template Defence.  It should include the fact you are not liable and why (it's not relevant land under the POFA) and facts about your granddaughter's medical emergency and that the Airport byelaws allow for stopping for medical emergencies, exactly like this.  And the byelaws have not been revoked and take precedence, as confirmed by the DLUHC's new Parking Code of Practice this week ((quote the bits about byelaws where it says contract law can't override them).

Thanks Coupon-mad

I am still reading other cases , defence examples , witness statements etc and making notes on how to try and word it . Hoping to have mine finalised to post at the weekend when i have some free time. 12 hour days in work don't help, but i will get there.

Thanks again

Rileymark1

Hi All,

Could some of the regulars please have a look at the parts i intend to add to the defence template before i submit it and let me know if its ok. I have looked at a few various ones and noticed that some are really long and the regulars have in some cases said to leave the more detailed witness statements etc for when i do my evidence etc at a later date.

I have just tried to put the 3 points that i think are relevant to myself as in , the signage (or lack of it), the Airport byelaws and POFA and that this was an emergency stop due to my Granddaughters medical condition.

Any Feedback would be welcome.

Thanks in advance

1.       The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that a contract was entered into - by conduct or otherwise - whereby it was ‘agreed’ to pay a ‘parking charge’ and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue, nor to form contracts in their own name at the location.

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2.   It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but not the driver, therefore liability is denied.

3.  On 23rd September 2019 the Defendant had arranged to be collected after arriving at the airport following work commitments in France. The Defendant had asked the driver at the time to wait for them off the Airport grounds as the driver was unsure of the layout of the Airport and surrounding roads, having never drove there previously. On this occasion the driver of the vehicle had the Defendants youngest grandchild in the rear of the car, and during the journey the youngest grandchild had vomited. Due to a medical condition ( Cleft Palate – medical records available) the Defendants grandchild was subject to issues with choking and swallowing and the driver had no option but to pull over whilst the Defendant got in the vehicle to assist with the said child. By pursuing the keeper the Client is in breach of the Airports own Byelaws that allow for stopping in a medical emergency, Byelaws that have not been revoked and take precedence, as confirmed by the DLUHC’s new Parking Code of Practice.  Defendant cannot be held liable due to the Claimant not complying with the “keeper liability” requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4. It is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct. The Notice to Keeper states that there is clear signage placed at the entrance to the controlled area and at prominent areas throughout but from the pictures provided by the Claimant there are actually NO signs in sight.