Potential Breach of Contract

Shevchenko01

I think you have a case, as must your supplier if they have offered you some sort of resolution, even if it's unacceptable.

If you can't settle on an arrangement that satisfies both sides, then maybe they'll just allow you to terminate the contract with no penalty.

Probably easier for you than trying to sue them somehow - they'll have much greater legal resources than you.

Thanks, Victor.

I have the recording (under a DP SAR) which proves what I asked.  It goes to deadlock now as the person who was dealing with it didn't have the authority to offer me what I asked for (and I even offered to contribute some of the cost - just some) - a 5G MiFi device.

Shevchenko01

JSmithy45AD said:

So, no breach of contract then?

Based on what info?  I see it as a definite breach of contract.

JenB79

Shevchenko01 said:

The responses to your questions by their advisors (and I'm not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet that they're not 'Sales Personnel') would've been based on what is reasonable for a consumer. Given your unusual requirements (you can't even wait for something to boot up/connect in the morning while you make a coffee) surely a business contract with corresponding SLA's would've been much more appropriate for your needs ? This would've given you the comeback you seem so confident you're due (and the corresponding cost to go with it)

The "bee in my bonnet" is what others have said re my "being given advice by a sales-person".

But again, I repeat, if I buy a product or service on the basis that it can (and will) do x, y ad z (as confirmed by the sales person or advisor), and I pay for that product or service, then I expect it to do x, y and z - no alteration.

It's a contract and they, in exchange for supplying me with a phone and unlimited data, calls, etc, expect me to pay them - each month and on time, which I do.  I, on the other hand, in return for that payment, expect them to provide me with both a plan and a handset that does exactly what was agreed to at the point of sale, be able to provide a hotspot to replace my broadband which is on 24/7.  It is perfectly reasonable.

No, a hotspot is NOT designed to operate 24/7 and replace fixed line broadband, unless your fixed line broadband speeds are poor , eg less than 20 Mbps. But the fact that you're thinking of taking out a fixed line service at home suggests your fixed line speeds are perfectly usable.

I think your expectations are way too much, you seem to be looking for an all-in-one solution for home broadband, office broadband and broadband whilst on the move. You're going to struggle to find such a solution. You're better off paying for an el-cheapo fixed line service at home, but if you need faster line speeds (eg Gigabit) for work then get a leased line installed - get your employer to pay for it if its an absolute necessity.

As for using your own internet connection at work, doesn't your employer provide one? If its too slow, then that's not your problem. You can only work with what's available.

And for connectivity whilst out meeting clients, then use your S21 as a hotspot. Though I'm not sure why you're paying for this if its a business expense. Unless you're self employed?

Also what happens when your 5G speeds drop massivley once a few freeloaders jump onto the mast? I take it you're aware that mobile speeds are much more sensitive to congestion/contention than fixed line services? I would rather be on a stable 80/20 FTTC service rather than a ~ 500 Mbps 5G service which drops to less than 50 Mbps on peak times. You might be in for a huge shock if you think you're consistently going to get xxx Mbps on 5G day and night...

JSmithy45AD

JenB79 said:

Shevchenko01 said:

The responses to your questions by their advisors (and I'm not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet that they're not 'Sales Personnel') would've been based on what is reasonable for a consumer. Given your unusual requirements (you can't even wait for something to boot up/connect in the morning while you make a coffee) surely a business contract with corresponding SLA's would've been much more appropriate for your needs ? This would've given you the comeback you seem so confident you're due (and the corresponding cost to go with it)

The "bee in my bonnet" is what others have said re my "being given advice by a sales-person".

But again, I repeat, if I buy a product or service on the basis that it can (and will) do x, y ad z (as confirmed by the sales person or advisor), and I pay for that product or service, then I expect it to do x, y and z - no alteration.

It's a contract and they, in exchange for supplying me with a phone and unlimited data, calls, etc, expect me to pay them - each month and on time, which I do.  I, on the other hand, in return for that payment, expect them to provide me with both a plan and a handset that does exactly what was agreed to at the point of sale, be able to provide a hotspot to replace my broadband which is on 24/7.  It is perfectly reasonable.

No, a hotspot is NOT designed to operate 24/7 and replace fixed line broadband, unless your fixed line broadband speeds are poor , eg less than 20 Mbps. But the fact that you're thinking of taking out a fixed line service at home suggests your fixed line speeds are perfectly usable.

I think your expectations are way to much, you seem to be looking for an all-in-one solution for home broadband, office broadband and broadband whilst on the move. You're going to struggle to find such a solution. You're better off paying for an el-cheapo fixed line service at home, but if you need faster line speeds (eg Gigabit) for work then get a leased line installed - get your employer to pay for it if its an absolute necessity.

As for using your own internet connection at work, doesn't your employer provide one? If its too slow, then that's not your problem. You can only work with what's available.

And for connectivity whilst out meeting clients, then use your S21 as a hotspot. Though I'm not sure why you're paying for this if its a business expense. Unless you're self employed?

I think he(?) has already said they're self-employed (unless I'm mixing up my threads).

Shevchenko01

No, a hotspot is NOT designed to operate 24/7 and replace fixed line broadband, unless your fixed line broadband speeds are poor , eg less than 20 Mbps. But the fact that you're thinking of taking out a fixed line service at home suggests your fixed line speeds are perfectly usable.

I think your expectations are way too much, you seem to be looking for an all-in-one solution for home broadband, office broadband and broadband whilst on the move. You're going to struggle to find such a solution. You're better off paying for an el-cheapo fixed line service at home, but if you need faster line speeds (eg Gigabit) for work then get a leased line installed - get your employer to pay for it if its an absolute necessity.

As for using your own internet connection at work, doesn't your employer provide one? If its too slow, then that's not your problem. You can only work with what's available.

And for connectivity whilst out meeting clients, then use your S21 as a hotspot. Though I'm not sure why you're paying for this if its a business expense. Unless you're self employed?

Also what happens when your 5G speeds drop massivley once a few freeloaders jump onto the mast? I take it you're aware that mobile speeds are much more sensitive to congestion/contention than fixed line services? I would rather be on a stable 80/20 FTTC service rather than a ~ 500 Mbps 5G service which drops to less than 50 Mbps on peak times. You might be in for a huge shock if you think you're consistently going to get xxx Mbps on 5G day and night...

Thanks for this advice.  Of course, had I known all this before I bought the phone and plan (had I been advised better) then I would indeed have done most of what you suggested.  But it seemed like a good move at the time as the advice was firm (or seemed so).  And, with my old S10 on 4G, I was getting good speeds - better than I was with any broadband device.  And with the S21 on 5G, they are excellent.

I really want to keep this system and, as I asked them over and over again, to let me have a dual-band 5G MiFi device (portable) with a good number of multi-device connections but what they offered me was a 4G, dingle band (2.4GHz) with a ridiculously small number of simultaneous device connections - all adding up to me not receiving what I am paying for - what the adviser agreed I'd get and what was suitable.

Oh, and I am both employed and self-employed - still working for someone as I build up my own business, so cost is a big player here which is why I cannot afford to say, "Oh well..."

JenB79

Shevchenko01 said:

No, a hotspot is NOT designed to operate 24/7 and replace fixed line broadband, unless your fixed line broadband speeds are poor , eg less than 20 Mbps. But the fact that you're thinking of taking out a fixed line service at home suggests your fixed line speeds are perfectly usable.

I think your expectations are way too much, you seem to be looking for an all-in-one solution for home broadband, office broadband and broadband whilst on the move. You're going to struggle to find such a solution. You're better off paying for an el-cheapo fixed line service at home, but if you need faster line speeds (eg Gigabit) for work then get a leased line installed - get your employer to pay for it if its an absolute necessity.

As for using your own internet connection at work, doesn't your employer provide one? If its too slow, then that's not your problem. You can only work with what's available.

And for connectivity whilst out meeting clients, then use your S21 as a hotspot. Though I'm not sure why you're paying for this if its a business expense. Unless you're self employed?

Also what happens when your 5G speeds drop massivley once a few freeloaders jump onto the mast? I take it you're aware that mobile speeds are much more sensitive to congestion/contention than fixed line services? I would rather be on a stable 80/20 FTTC service rather than a ~ 500 Mbps 5G service which drops to less than 50 Mbps on peak times. You might be in for a huge shock if you think you're consistently going to get xxx Mbps on 5G day and night...

Thanks for this advice.  Of course, had I known all this before I bought the phone and plan (had I been advised better) then I would indeed have done most of what you suggested.  But it seemed like a good move at the time as the advice was firm (or seemed so).  And, with my old S10 on 4G, I was getting good speeds - better than I was with any broadband device.  And with the S21 on 5G, they are excellent.

I really want to keep this system and, as I asked them over and over again, to let me have a dual-band 5G MiFi device (portable) with a good number of multi-device connections but what they offered me was a 4G, dingle band (2.4GHz) with a ridiculously small number of simultaneous device connections - all adding up to me not receiving what I am paying for - what the adviser agreed I'd get and what was suitable.

Oh, and I am both employed and self-employed - still working for someone as I build up my own business, so cost is a big player here which is why I cannot afford to say, "Oh well..."

Who is the mobile operator? I don't think all offer a 5G hotspot device/router, so if they're offering you 4G kit then it could be that they simply don't have a 5G device to offer you.

As a last resort you might want to sell the S21 on a well known auction site (get it unlocked if necessary) and buy a 5G router of your choice with the funds, and you'll still have some change left.

ItsComingRome

Shevchenko01 said:

The responses to your questions by their advisors (and I'm not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet that they're not 'Sales Personnel') would've been based on what is reasonable for a consumer. Given your unusual requirements (you can't even wait for something to boot up/connect in the morning while you make a coffee) surely a business contract with corresponding SLA's would've been much more appropriate for your needs ? This would've given you the comeback you seem so confident you're due (and the corresponding cost to go with it)

The "bee in my bonnet" is what others have said re my "being given advice by a sales-person".

But again, I repeat, if I buy a product or service on the basis that it can (and will) do x, y ad z (as confirmed by the sales person or advisor), and I pay for that product or service, then I expect it to do x, y and z - no alteration.

It's a contract and they, in exchange for supplying me with a phone and unlimited data, calls, etc, expect me to pay them - each month and on time, which I do.  I, on the other hand, in return for that payment, expect them to provide me with both a plan and a handset that does exactly what was agreed to at the point of sale, be able to provide a hotspot to replace my broadband which is on 24/7.  It is perfectly reasonable.

But it does do "x, y and z" it's just not a particularly good idea to actually do it.

You have no claim for breach of contract because the contract has not been breached, you have an S21 (as agreed) that is capable of being a hotspot 24/7 on a 5G connection (where available.)

At best you'd have a misselling complaint but it's incredibly weak.  As I said, it does work as a hotspot 24/7 as agreed.

Shevchenko01

But it does do "x, y and z" it's just not a particularly good idea to actually do it.

You have no claim for breach of contract because the contract has not been breached, you have an S21 (as agreed) that is capable of being a hotspot 24/7 on a 5G connection (where available.)

At best you'd have a misselling complaint but it's incredibly weak.  As I said, it does work as a hotspot 24/7 as agreed.

When something is stated that it will do x, y and z, it is expected that it will do x, y and z and (amongst others):

1. Perform this action by design;
2. Not damage the equipment;
3. Not invalidate any warranty;
4. Allow the equipment to continue this action for a reasonable period of time - and in this case, for the duration of the contract.

In my case, this is not true.  The phone is:

1. Not designed to perform this action by design;
2. Being damaged by this action;
3. Having its warranty invalidated by this action;
4. Highly unlikely to function and in any case not as it should for the duration of the contract.

Omitting known pertinent facts when asked question before a sale is tantamount to lying.  If I asked about a phone' (that was not waterproof, unbeknown to me) ability be taken in a swimming pool and the adviser told me "Yes, no problem!" but omitted the, "But it won't work afterwards", then that is a lie by omission.  If he wasn't qualified (didn't know the specs), saying this is mis-selling as he sold something on the basis of not being qualified to give the advice he did.

At the end of the day, I asked the right questions - I asked if there was any reason why I should not do this, and he advised me that it would be OK, rather than advising me that it was my choice or that it might drastically shorten the life of the phone or invalidate its warranty.  That is the end of it.

JenB79

OP, did you ask their sales advisor agent

a) I wish to buy a S21, can you tell me if it can be used as an internet hotspot?
or
b) I wish to replace my home broadband and office broadband with your mobile broadband service, what would you recommend?

Also which mobile company was it? So we can find out whether they actually offer a 5G mobile router or whether a 4G device is all they can offer. 

k3lvc

Shevchenko01 said:

But it does do "x, y and z" it's just not a particularly good idea to actually do it.

You have no claim for breach of contract because the contract has not been breached, you have an S21 (as agreed) that is capable of being a hotspot 24/7 on a 5G connection (where available.)

At best you'd have a misselling complaint but it's incredibly weak.  As I said, it does work as a hotspot 24/7 as agreed.

When something is stated that it will do x, y and z, it is expected that it will do x, y and z and (amongst others):

1. Perform this action by design;
2. Not damage the equipment;
3. Not invalidate any warranty;
4. Allow the equipment to continue this action for a reasonable period of time - and in this case, for the duration of the contract.

In my case, this is not true.  The phone is:

1. Not designed to perform this action by design;
2. Being damaged by this action;
3. Having its warranty invalidated by this action;
4. Highly unlikely to function and in any case not as it should for the duration of the contract.

Omitting known pertinent facts when asked question before a sale is tantamount to lying.  If I asked about a phone' (that was not waterproof, unbeknown to me) ability be taken in a swimming pool and the adviser told me "Yes, no problem!" but omitted the, "But it won't work afterwards", then that is a lie by omission.  If he wasn't qualified (didn't know the specs), saying this is mis-selling as he sold something on the basis of not being qualified to give the advice he did.

At the end of the day, I asked the right questions - I asked if there was any reason why I should not do this, and he advised me that it would be OK, rather than advising me that it was my choice or that it might drastically shorten the life of the phone or invalidate its warranty.  That is the end of it.

In which case I'm not sure what you're expecting here - you've disagreed with every other opinion/reality/common sense.

Given your case is such an open/shut one make sure you come back and give us the full judgement when you win and how much you won

Alternatively save yourself time/money and accept you're receiving what you paid for - it's just your expectations are unrealistic