Potential Breach of Contract 3 October 2021 at 2:58PM in Mobiles 60 replies 1K views

Shevchenko01

I bought a new phone (S21) with unlimited 5G in Feb in order to use it as a hotspot in place of my Home & Office broadband.  I live in a good 5G area and the speeds are approx 4xfaster than broadband.  The S21 is also dual-band (2.4 & 5 GHz)I told the sales person my plans and asked if there was any reason not to do this.  He replied no - none at all (I have the recording of this call).

Since then, I have noticed my phone's battery is staying charged less and less time and getting hotter and hotter while being used.  I since found out that I should not be using a mobile phone as a hot-spot 24/7.

The mobile company have offered me a 4G (single band - 2.4GHz - slow) Mi-Fi box as a "good-will" payment, which I have refused.

I understand that there is a process to follow (deadlock, Ofcom, etc), but does anyone believe that I have a case to cancel the contract on the basis of bad advice?  I am paying for 5G and dual-band to access the 5GHz WiFi signal, but I can either ... ruin my phone (I think it has 6 months life left in it) or lose what I am paying for.

ItsComingRome

It seems like they said it could be used as a hotspot, no problem, which is true. Using it 24/7 is obviously a bad idea.

I don't see why you've turned down the generous offer of a mobile router, you're unlikely to be getting anything close to max 5G speeds inside anyway.

Nobody is going to guarantee a 5G service, regardless of where you are.

Shevchenko01

ItsComingRome said:

It seems like they said it could be used as a hotspot, no problem, which is true. Using it 24/7 is obviously a bad idea.

I don't see why you've turned down the generous offer of a mobile router, you're unlikely to be getting anything close to max 5G speeds inside anyway.

Nobody is going to guarantee a 5G service, regardless of where you are.

Thanks for the reply.

I actually live in a very good 5G area and I get (on my mobile) very fast speeds - much faster than I get on my slightly older (non-5G) phone and that was faster than my broadband when I used 5GHz (rather than 2.4GHz), so I know that I'll lose out by dropping to a 4G single-band box (there's a reason why they are so cheap ... or even free with a fairly low-price data plan). 

When I switched off my 5GHz and tested with only 2.4GHz, it was below what I used to get with my Broadband.  I will not be able to function satisfactorily (I work from home and the speed of the 5G/Dual-band aspect was the big seller for me - despite the high price).

So, I know that my speed will drop considerably if I accept their offer, which puts me in nowhere near the position that I was supposed to be based on their advice.  Therefore, their offer was very far from generous.

It looks like I'll have to have broadband reinstalled to be able to work effectively, which means I'd have to pay twice for my internet connection, which is unacceptable.

victor2

5G MiFi routers are still quite expensive, but you could try negotiating to pay the extra to get a 5G dual band one, rather than 4G one being offered.Mind you, a 4G 2.4GHz only unit is cheap as chips.

However, that will then use your SIM card and raises the question what will you use in your phone? You can't get two SIMS with the same number.

Shevchenko01

victor2 said:

5G MiFi routers are still quite expensive, but you could try negotiating to pay the extra to get a 5G dual band one, rather than 4G one being offered.Mind you, a 4G 2.4GHz only unit is cheap as chips.

However, that will then use your SIM card and raises the question what will you use in your phone? You can't get two SIMS with the same number.

Thanks, Victor.

You're right, they are expensive.  My S21 (which is being used as one) cost nearly a grand...and the only reason I bought it was to use it as a 5G, dual-band hot spot.

They have agreed to provide me with a new SIM on a 5G unlimited data (for a MiFi device) and remove the unlimited data off my phone, at no extra cost (which it exactly as it should be) BUT they won't give me a 5G device to use it in (only their own 4G LTE - which isn't even true 4G and is only a single band router) ... so that means the 5G mobile data plan pointless ... utterly pointless!

I actually offered to pay towards a NETGEAR Nighthawk M5 Mobile 5G, Dual-band Router (at £725) - which puts me back into the position I am in now - but they would not go more than £200 towards it which I think is wrong.  They are the ones who mucked up and put me in this position, so, whilst I don't mind contributing some money to the price of it, not the bulk - I'm not a multi-billion pound international business.  £725 to them is not even a drop in the ocean ... far from it.

JenB79

Shevchenko01 said:

victor2 said:

5G MiFi routers are still quite expensive, but you could try negotiating to pay the extra to get a 5G dual band one, rather than 4G one being offered.Mind you, a 4G 2.4GHz only unit is cheap as chips.

However, that will then use your SIM card and raises the question what will you use in your phone? You can't get two SIMS with the same number.

Thanks, Victor.

You're right, they are expensive.  My S21 (which is being used as one) cost nearly a grand...and the only reason I bought it was to use it as a 5G, dual-band hot spot.

But what on earth made you think a top of the range smartphone would perform just as well as a high end 5G router such as this wrt wifi signals? For a start your S21 will be a 2x2 stream device whereas most decent routers will be at least 3x3.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TCL-HH500E-Smarthome-Qualcomm-Snapdragon/dp/B0949HXM14/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=B0949HXM14&psc=1

Nothing wrong with using mobile hotspot on a smartphone, but its really for only temporary/occasional use and for short range connectivity eg when your smartphone is  next to your laptop. But theres no way a smartphone (even if it costs a grand) going to replace a proper router.

Shevchenko01

JenB79 said:

But what on earth made you think a top of the range smartphone would perform just as well as a high end 5G router such as this wrt wifi signals? For a start your S21 will be a 2x2 stream device whereas most decent routers will be at least 3x3.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TCL-HH500E-Smarthome-Qualcomm-Snapdragon/dp/B0949HXM14/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=B0949HXM14&psc=1

Nothing wrong with using mobile hotspot on a smartphone, but its really for only temporary/occasional use and for short range connectivity eg when your smartphone is  next to your laptop. But theres no way a smartphone (even if it costs a grand) going to replace a proper router.

Because, not being an expert in this field, I sought advice from the "expert" at the mobile provider and, after asking all pertinent questions, they told me "Yes, this will be fine!"  At the end of the day, we should be able to trust that the people who sell us goods and services know what they are talking about and, all said and done, as they told me that it could do it, the issues and cost relating to the fact that it won't, lies at their door, not mine.

I looked at the Qualcomm X55 but it isn't mobile (as far as I could tell), which is what I need.  But thanks for the suggestion.

ItsComingRome

Shevchenko01 said:

ItsComingRome said:

It seems like they said it could be used as a hotspot, no problem, which is true. Using it 24/7 is obviously a bad idea.

I don't see why you've turned down the generous offer of a mobile router, you're unlikely to be getting anything close to max 5G speeds inside anyway.

Nobody is going to guarantee a 5G service, regardless of where you are.

Thanks for the reply.

I actually live in a very good 5G area and I get (on my mobile) very fast speeds - much faster than I get on my slightly older (non-5G) phone and that was faster than my broadband when I used 5GHz (rather than 2.4GHz), so I know that I'll lose out by dropping to a 4G single-band box (there's a reason why they are so cheap ... or even free with a fairly low-price data plan). 

When I switched off my 5GHz and tested with only 2.4GHz, it was below what I used to get with my Broadband.  I will not be able to function satisfactorily (I work from home and the speed of the 5G/Dual-band aspect was the big seller for me - despite the high price).

So, I know that my speed will drop considerably if I accept their offer, which puts me in nowhere near the position that I was supposed to be based on their advice.  Therefore, their offer was very far from generous.

It looks like I'll have to have broadband reinstalled to be able to work effectively, which means I'd have to pay twice for my internet connection, which is unacceptable.

You're confusing mobile speeds with WiFi speeds.

5Ghz WiFi will offer speeds of up to 1300Mbps but that frequency results in reduced signal penetration so is not exactly ideal.  Regardless 2.4GHz Wifi offers speeds of up to 600Mbps, 3 times the speed that the 5G can potentially provide, but realistically won't, offer.

4G will offer anything up to 40MBit/s and even at an "average" of 10Mbit/s is still fine for average office use.

You're always going to be limited to the speed of the weakest links, and 5G generally performs horribly inside a building.

If you're trying to get out of the contract you won't get to keep the phone.  Are you just trying it on because your phone battery is now fluxxed, or do you expect to keep the phone and cancel the contract?

Shevchenko01

ItsComingRome said:

You're confusing mobile speeds with WiFi speeds.

5Ghz WiFi will offer speeds of up to 1300Mbps but that frequency results in reduced signal penetration so is not exactly ideal.  Regardless 2.4GHz Wifi offers speeds of up to 600Mbps, 3 times the speed that the 5G can potentially provide, but realistically won't, offer.

4G will offer anything up to 40MBit/s and even at an "average" of 10Mbit/s is still fine for average office use.

You're always going to be limited to the speed of the weakest links, and 5G generally performs horribly inside a building.

If you're trying to get out of the contract you won't get to keep the phone.  Are you just trying it on because your phone battery is now fluxxed, or do you expect to keep the phone and cancel the contract?

I don't think so, I am referring to the fact that not using the phone and using the MiFi device offered meant two issues: 4G instead of 5G and 2.4GHz instead of 5GHz.  The worst of both worlds.  And I always have my phone next to my laptop.

Doing a number of tests shows consistently better speeds (via Fast.com) whilst connected to 5G vs 4G in my office and home and has always been far faster than my broadband speed ever was (by 3x at its worst).  When I forced my phone to use 2.4GHz whilst on 4G (mimicking the MiFi box) the speed slower than my old broadband speed.

I use a lot of data.  Last month, I used 58.6 GB of data - sending and receiving very large packets of data, video conferencing, and many other non-work related things.  Of course, that's what the unlimited data is for, but the speed ensures I am not waiting a day for a transfer of a file.

I understand that I won't keep the phone if the contract is ended.  I am hoping that the mobile provider sorts this out and offers me a solution to put me in the position I should be, and I will be a little sad to see it go (I like the S21) but if I cannot use the 5G, then why have it in the first place?  Why have the 5G data plan?  To use the phone as a hotspot was the only reason I bought it.  But that said, the  (mobile provider) need to do something or else the phone will die in side the contact period - as a result of their bad advice.

JenB79

Shevchenko01 said:

JenB79 said:

But what on earth made you think a top of the range smartphone would perform just as well as a high end 5G router such as this wrt wifi signals? For a start your S21 will be a 2x2 stream device whereas most decent routers will be at least 3x3.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TCL-HH500E-Smarthome-Qualcomm-Snapdragon/dp/B0949HXM14/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=B0949HXM14&psc=1

Nothing wrong with using mobile hotspot on a smartphone, but its really for only temporary/occasional use and for short range connectivity eg when your smartphone is  next to your laptop. But theres no way a smartphone (even if it costs a grand) going to replace a proper router.

Because, not being an expert in this field, I sought advice from the "expert" at the mobile provider and, after asking all pertinent questions, they told me "Yes, this will be fine!"  At the end of the day, we should be able to trust that the people who sell us goods and services know what they are talking about and, all said and done, as they told me that it could do it, the issues and cost relating to the fact that it won't, lies at their door, not mine.

I looked at the Qualcomm X55 but it isn't mobile (as far as I could tell), which is what I need.  But thanks for the suggestion.

You spoke to a salesperson, they told you that the S21 can be used as a hotspot which is 100% true. You can't expect them to elaborate on that as they're paid to sell stuff, not to provide technical advice beyond the basics. 

Anyway moving forward, your best option is buy a third party 5G router and put the S21 sim into that.

The router I suggested earlier seems to be an unlocked 5G router? Unless I'm mistaken it takes any 5G sim card?

Otherwise this should do the trick, though its not cheap but its the best you can get - 5G dual band wifi 6 router: (you can send it back to Amazon for a full refund if it doesn't perform to your expectation)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SmartHome-Downlink-Ultra-Fast-Connection-Med-Large/dp/B08L6L777Z/ref=sr_1_1?crid=396DHP743FJKY&dchild=1&keywords=5g+cpe+pro+2&qid=1633333456&qsid=258-8792925-5234637&s=computers&sprefix=5G+CPE,computers,187&sr=1-1&sres=B08L6L777Z,B07X9TQK79,B0949HXM14,B09G3M5Q8V,B08BX4YYPJ,B084KCWTSG,B08571L3BZ,B08LD4ZLGK,B086N9CZ6K,B08557ZLFX,B094V13W3B,B07ZK7QF5L,B07M7DZ85C,B08M5PT6Z2,B097RBBS8S,B0944ST4FD,B08M9H2M2F,B08R7JYNSM,B091FVNBHD,B08XW18JRC&srpt=NETWORKING_ROUTER

Shevchenko01

You spoke to a salesperson, they told you that the S21 can be used as a hotspot which is 100% true. You can't expect them to elaborate on that as they're paid to sell stuff, not to provide technical advice beyond the basics. 

Anyway moving forward, your best option is buy a third party 5G router and put the S21 sim into that.

The router I suggested earlier seems to be an unlocked 5G router? Unless I'm mistaken it takes any 5G sim card?

Otherwise this should do the trick, though its not cheap but its the best you can get - 5G dual band wifi 6 router: (you can send it back to Amazon for a full refund if it doesn't perform to your expectation)

Thanks again for your reply.

I would expect them to not elaborate on anything they are not qualified to do, and if they do, then I assume that they are qualified, so they should not have said "Yes!" when I asked them if it was suitable for what I planned (and I clearly told them all my plans, not simply "Can it be a hot-spot") - they should have said they didn't know or referred me elsewhere.

As a sales-person, they are responsible for their side of the agreement.  If I ask "Will it control the weather for me and make the sun shine?  I'll buy it if it can!", by saying "Yes!", they are making that an integral part of their side of the contract, and if it can't, then they have failed to uphold their end of the agreement.  They should not give advice on any area they are unqualified to do so and by giving such advice or agreeing to such terms, they put their organisation at risk of those failures.

Thanks again for that recommendation.  But again, it isn't mobile, although it uses a SIM card, it has to plugged in to the mains - I know which MiFi device I want, but I need my mobile supplier to pay for it (or at least most of the cost) as I should not have to.  It has to be a 5G MiFI, like...

https://amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-MR1100-100EUS-Nighthawk-Downloading-Streaming/dp/B08HWRYVH5/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=5g+wifi&qid=1632824877&refinements=p_89:NETGEAR&rnid=1632651031&s=computers&sr=1-9&th=1

...so I can use it out and about or with clients.