Potential Breach of Contract

Shevchenko01

JenB79 said:

OP, did you ask their sales advisor agent

a) I wish to buy a S21, can you tell me if it can be used as an internet hotspot?
or
b) I wish to replace my home broadband and office broadband with your mobile broadband service, what would you recommend?

Also which mobile company was it? So we can find out whether they actually offer a 5G mobile router or whether a 4G device is all they can offer. 

Kind of both.  I stated to the sales agent advisor (b) but I also stated that I (at the time) had an S10 and have had Samsung's "S" models since the first came out, so I was naturally thinking about the S21.

As for which mobile company, I have deliberately not named them.  Seems unfair to until we have exhausted every avenue first.  The 5G device is all they can offer - this I know.

Shevchenko01

In which case I'm not sure what you're expecting here - you've disagreed with every other opinion/reality/common sense.

Given your case is such an open/shut one make sure you come back and give us the full judgement when you win and how much you won

Alternatively save yourself time/money and accept you're receiving what you paid for - it's just your expectations are unrealistic  

So you'd be happy if a sales advisor advised you that what you are buying will do exactly what you are expecting it to do, in the manner that you expect, and when it doesn't, or stops, you'll sit back and go, "Oh well, I'm getting what I paid for - a completely ruined item that I am still paying for and no way to get the service."

Wow!  Hope I can sell you something one day!!! 

JenB79

Shevchenko01 said:

JenB79 said:

OP, did you ask their sales advisor agent

a) I wish to buy a S21, can you tell me if it can be used as an internet hotspot?
or
b) I wish to replace my home broadband and office broadband with your mobile broadband service, what would you recommend?

Also which mobile company was it? So we can find out whether they actually offer a 5G mobile router or whether a 4G device is all they can offer. 

Kind of both.  I stated to the sales agent advisor (b) but I also stated that I (at the time) had an S10 and have had Samsung's "S" models since the first came out, so I was naturally thinking about the S21.

As for which mobile company, I have deliberately not named them.  Seems unfair to until we have exhausted every avenue first.  The 5G device is all they can offer - this I know.

So as you mentioned the S21 to them then hardly surprising they told you it can be used in a hotspot mode. IMHO they rightly assumed that you were primarily looking to upgrade your smart phone, after all who spends a grand on a phone purely to be used as a router? Perhaps if you didn't mention ANY particular device at all then they could be held responsible for giving you incorrect advice but I don't see what they've done wrong here.

As for not naming the provider, do you think they have their legal team reading these forums? Not sure why you think its "unfair" to name them, its not as if they'll call the old bill to your home. But if you want to withhold information because of your paranoia then fair enough.

ItsComingRome

Shevchenko01 said:

In which case I'm not sure what you're expecting here - you've disagreed with every other opinion/reality/common sense.

Given your case is such an open/shut one make sure you come back and give us the full judgement when you win and how much you won

Alternatively save yourself time/money and accept you're receiving what you paid for - it's just your expectations are unrealistic  

So you'd be happy if a sales advisor advised you that what you are buying will do exactly what you are expecting it to do, in the manner that you expect, and when it doesn't, or stops, you'll sit back and go, "Oh well, I'm getting what I paid for - a completely ruined item that I am still paying for and no way to get the service."

Wow!  Hope I can sell you something one day!!! 

It worked exactly in the manner you'd expect.  You never asked whether your usage would kill the battery.

I used an iPhone 3G, years ago, as a hotspot, for well over a year.  I kept it wired, because I was sensible.  The effect on the battery was minimal.

Phones can be used as hotspots all day long if you have some common sense about you.

Shevchenko01

It worked exactly in the manner you'd expect.  You never asked whether your usage would kill the battery.

I used an iPhone 3G, years ago, as a hotspot, for well over a year.  I kept it wired, because I was sensible.  The effect on the battery was minimal.

Phones can be used as hotspots all day long if you have some common sense about you.

Are you knowledgable on all subjects?  Do you always know what questions to ask?  Lucky you!

But you are correct in that I never asked about the effect on the battery as, not being overly knowledgable on the subject, I never for one moment thought that I needed to as I would have though that surely a battery is fully capable of supporting all the functions of a phone without being damaged over a severely reduced period of time.

I also never asked if I could face north while pressing the volume key ... is that a thing?

You see, you have to have some knowledge about a subject to know what questions to ask.  In my field of expertise, I know exactly what to ask someone - questions you would never dream of asking - questions, to me, would be common sense, but I have to remember that others with less knowledge, it would not be ... common sense is subjective and not so common.  I asked the questions that I knew to ask and reasonably expected the adviser to tell me of any negative side effects.

As I have already sated here, many times, if I am buying some widget and I ask "Can I do [this] with it?", or "Will it do [this]?"  I have already demonstrated that my knowledge of this widget is limited, or I'd already know the answer and, therefore, I am reliant on the adviser to advise me fully and honestly on what the limitations are, not to simply say "Sure you can!" but withhold, "Except unless you do [these things], your widget won't last you six months!"

PixelPound

What's the ultimate goal here?
Get out of your contract or get a 5G wifi service, that you would have been happy paying the amount you were contracted to?

The service provider may decide to allow you to cancel and return with no charges as a full and final resolution of your complaint, but that may depend on how far you are willing to take it, and will most likely not be because you are "right" but because commercially it is better to resolve than risk going as far as legal action.

Then again, they may not. Most mobile service operators will have limited liability in the T&C, because they are not the hardware manufacturers, and limitations of the device would be with the hardware manufacturer, rather than the network supplier. So your argument is whether a verbal agreement as contract trumps the T&C of the service.

You probably would need to seek legal advice on this, but I cannot see that any Judge would believe any verbal agreement would trump and that it's reasonable to state that any phone advisor would not be able to make guarantees in contravene of the T&C, or be expected to be a technical expert.

I suppose you could make that employees life hell and include him/her in any legal proceedings, but what's your goal? 

No mobile phone battery would be expected to last for long used and plugged in 24/7. In fact manufacturers tell you to not leave it charging 24/7, and battery longevity (number of recharge cycles) is based on a specified usage.

Using a mobile as a 24/7 router and permanently plugged in is fire risk, the battery could explode, even if it could last for the whole length of your contract rather than 6 months.

If you never intend to use the mobile as a "mobile device" but as 5G router. Putting aside all arguments as to why a dedicated router would be a better option than a mobile, your answer would be to bypass the battery. If you powered the phone with the battery removed, that would solve both the longevity issue and the fire risk. If any change was done without damage so that it could be reversed, then once no longer needed, the battery could be replaced and it be a mobile phone once more with a good battery. This can be done such as https://www.instructables.com/Power-an-Android-Phone-Without-Battery/

You may well succeed in getting out of your contract, or you may fall at every hurdle and end up paying the other side's legal costs. Whichever, one thing is clear, mobiles are not designed to be used 24/7 and plugged in 24/7, so you would not have got what you wanted even if you went with another provider.  

Shevchenko01

nic_c said:

What's the ultimate goal here?
Get out of your contract or get a 5G wifi service, that you would have been happy paying the amount you were contracted to?

The service provider may decide to allow you to cancel and return with no charges as a full and final resolution of your complaint, but that may depend on how far you are willing to take it, and will most likely not be because you are "right" but because commercially it is better to resolve than risk going as far as legal action.

Then again, they may not. Most mobile service operators will have limited liability in the T&C, because they are not the hardware manufacturers, and limitations of the device would be with the hardware manufacturer, rather than the network supplier. So your argument is whether a verbal agreement as contract trumps the T&C of the service.

You probably would need to seek legal advice on this, but I cannot see that any Judge would believe any verbal agreement would trump and that it's reasonable to state that any phone advisor would not be able to make guarantees in contravene of the T&C, or be expected to be a technical expert.

I suppose you could make that employees life hell and include him/her in any legal proceedings, but what's your goal? 

No mobile phone battery would be expected to last for long used and plugged in 24/7. In fact manufacturers tell you to not leave it charging 24/7, and battery longevity (number of recharge cycles) is based on a specified usage.

Using a mobile as a 24/7 router and permanently plugged in is fire risk, the battery could explode, even if it could last for the whole length of your contract rather than 6 months.

If you never intend to use the mobile as a "mobile device" but as 5G router. Putting aside all arguments as to why a dedicated router would be a better option than a mobile, your answer would be to bypass the battery. If you powered the phone with the battery removed, that would solve both the longevity issue and the fire risk. If any change was done without damage so that it could be reversed, then once no longer needed, the battery could be replaced and it be a mobile phone once more with a good battery. This can be done such as https://www.instructables.com/Power-an-Android-Phone-Without-Battery/

You may well succeed in getting out of your contract, or you may fall at every hurdle and end up paying the other side's legal costs. Whichever, one thing is clear, mobiles are not designed to be used 24/7 and plugged in 24/7, so you would not have got what you wanted even if you went with another provider.  

Thanks for this.

At the end of the day, all the advice you have given is good - and of course, I know this ... now.  But at the time, I wasn't aware of any of this and had only the advice of their sales advisor to go on, as I my knowledge of mobile phones and batteries is very limited - obviously.  And believe me, if I had thought there was any risk to the phone at the time, I would not have gone down this route but would have stayed with wired broadband, but the idea was literally sold to me as a good idea.

But what I want is a 5G, dual-band MiFi device so that I can continue using the service as I am doing now, just without doing it via my phone.  I even offered to pay towards such a device, but they only offered to cover a tiny percentage of the cost themselves - and I cannot afford the amount that would need to be paid.

The secondary option is to get out of the contact as I would need to have broadband put back - again, I cannot afford both - but I really don't want to unless absolutely necessary.  I only want them to give me what I agreed to at the point of sale (where this works continuously for the whole period of the contract). The fact that the service provider themselves (since the sale and during the complaints process), all knowledge that this was a bad idea shows that the advice I was given should not have been given.  I am just glad that I have recordings for all the calls made between us.

As regards to their "limited T&C's", as these were never made known to me (read out or a location given to me to read or even sent to me via email) at the time of the sale or immediately after, so I don't believe that they can be enforced.

"If you never intend to use the mobile as a "mobile device" but as 5G router." - it is both - I have no landline any more and the plan I pay for is unlimited 5G everything.

Jenni_D

redux said:

I don't think the naive pose works.

Phoning the firm up and recording answers to ambiguous questions sounds rather like a preconceived plan

I suggest you re-read the OP's posts - they have done no such thing. They have the recordings made by the provider of the calls, obtained via a SAR.  

redux

Jenni_D said:

redux said:

I don't think the naive pose works.

Phoning the firm up and recording answers to ambiguous questions sounds rather like a preconceived plan

I suggest you re-read the OP's posts - they have done no such thing. They have the recordings made by the provider of the calls, obtained via a SAR.  

My previous post removed

Shevchenko01

redux said:

Jenni_D said:

redux said:

I don't think the naive pose works.

Phoning the firm up and recording answers to ambiguous questions sounds rather like a preconceived plan

I suggest you re-read the OP's posts - they have done no such thing. They have the recordings made by the provider of the calls, obtained via a SAR.  

My previous post removed

Thanks, redux

Jenni_D is correct - all calls have been obtained via a DP Subject Access Request from the provider.

That said, no ambiguous questions were asked - I was actually very clear and concise in the questions I asked, as I didn't want any ambiguous answers at the point of sale - and I didn't get any either.