Utility Point to Cease Trading

poppellerant

CRISPIANNE3 said:

poppellerant said:

I'm happier now that I've just logged into my Utility Point account and submitted my readings.  Having spoken with Citizens Advice earlier, they should regard these as opening readings for my new provider, although I've got readings in there less than a week old - so any estimates should be easy to make and accurate to less than a week.

In the meantime I was advised by Citizens Advice not to cancel my direct debit.  I wish I'd thought of phoning them before my bank and calling the DD, but never mind.  That's a mistake learnt.

From what I understand, I believe you can start a switch to another provider once the newly designated provider have sent us welcome packs by email.  Or perhaps I've got that wrong and we need to wait for something else? This is quite a fast moving thread, but I'd really like some opinions.

Re your comment about dd. You could not have phoned them because there is no one to take the calls. If you try phoning you get recorded information if you have an emergency with your gas and electricity supply. Also Like you I cancelled mine because I have a very healthy credit balance and they can take any debt from that. BTW I only have gas with them.

Perhaps I could have worded it better.  When I said "I wish I'd thought of phoning them before my bank", I meant I wish I thought of phoning Citizens Advice before phoning my bank who advised me to cancel the direct debit, which I did using the bank's app.

Inigo_Montoya

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/19585835.utility-point-ceo-issues-statement-company-ceased-trading/

transfer date to SOLR estimated as saturday

Bacman

Asking because I don't know - if you cancel your DD with an electricity provider who has closed before SOLR is appointed and you're under the old supplier's T&Cs regarding ending your DD, like penalties or change in tariff; ok. Once an SOLR is appointed then surely from that date onwards they become your provider (whether or not you've had tariff details, account set up, etc) so if at that point you cancel your DD with the old provider, surely that is fine as the new supplier has superceded the old one, so no penalty should be imposed. If you owe the old provider, sure keep the DD so they can take your monies owed however if they owe you then the SOLR will add that amount to your account (eventually) so means no reason not to cancel the DD with the old provider.

Am I right?

Yorkshire_Pud

Bacman said:

Asking because I don't know - if you cancel your DD with an electricity provider who has closed before SOLR is appointed and you're under the old supplier's T&Cs regarding ending your DD, like penalties or change in tariff; ok. Once an SOLR is appointed then surely from that date onwards they become your provider (whether or not you've had tariff details, account set up, etc) so if at that point you cancel your DD with the old provider, surely that is fine as the new supplier has superceded the old one, so no penalty should be imposed. If you owe the old provider, sure keep the DD so they can take your monies owed however if they owe you then the SOLR will add that amount to your account (eventually) so means no reason not to cancel the DD with the old provider.

Am I right?

Cancelled my DD and I’m in credit. If someone was in debt to UP why would they need to keep a DD open to pay a company that will be in ADMINISTRATION after the solr is appointed Saturday? It won’t be UP in charge of recovering debts any more than they would be issuing refunds, going forward and an old UP DD won’t be of any use to the appointed administrator or solr. That’s how I think it works but I’m stumbling my way through this process too!

ElwoodBlues

Bacman said:

Asking because I don't know - if you cancel your DD with an electricity provider who has closed before SOLR is appointed and you're under the old supplier's T&Cs regarding ending your DD, like penalties or change in tariff; ok. Once an SOLR is appointed then surely from that date onwards they become your provider (whether or not you've had tariff details, account set up, etc) so if at that point you cancel your DD with the old provider, surely that is fine as the new supplier has superceded the old one, so no penalty should be imposed. If you owe the old provider, sure keep the DD so they can take your monies owed however if they owe you then the SOLR will add that amount to your account (eventually) so means no reason not to cancel the DD with the old provider.

Am I right?

I would like to think that the old supplier (UP's) terms and conditions are null and void - they've ceased trading and are no longer supplying you with electricity, ergo they've terminated your contract. Even if they are still operating (which they shouldn't be), it would be really unfair to try and apply the £15 non dd fee when they're no longer your supplier.

We're currently in limbo - being supplied by an as yet unknown supplier, but do they maintain UP's pricing until the transfer is complete and consumer's have the chance to pick a new tariff or initiate a switch? Or do they immediately (and retrospectively) start charging with uncompetitive rates?

I've cancelled my dd, but I've worked out that I'm in credit by about £100. 

ElwoodBlues

greenguppie said:

Bacman said:

techno12 said:

..... "higher for 6 months, lower for 6 months" schemes).

Think I read NR are doing that now, yes? UP = NR  (same directors, same locations, presumably same staff)

I'm not sure quite what you are trying to imply. and I'm sure you will try and wriggle out of it as you tried (and failed) with your incorrect assertion you made previously about NR .

But this matter has already been discussed in this thread, and was debunked.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78606468/#Comment_78606468

But I'm more than happy to give you the whole nine yards (within the site rules) as you brought it up again.

Yes there is an "association" between the two companies. I don't think you can go much further than that.

Yes, both suppliers operate a 6up 6 down pricing on their tariffs. But they have different tariffs
- Furthermore, UP supplied electricty and/or gas. NR supplies electricity only.
- they do share similar billing software.

Yes they have a common registered office address. There were at least 50 companies registered to that same address the last time I looked. It's a solicitors office.

The two companies have 2 common directors. UP also has 2 more directors who are not directors of NR. NR has a 1 more director who is not a director of UP

The two companies have different CEOs

Shareholdings. - The 2 common directors owned all the shares in UP, with the CEO owning over 50% so having overall control.
The same 2 directors each own an equal share in NR, but the CEO also has a smaller holding.
Therefore, no one has overall control of NR.

No, the 2 companies do not share the same location., The 2 suppliers are both based in Poole, but about 2.5 miles apart from each other. (neither operate from their registered office address which is about 5 miles away)
- therefore I have no idea why you suggest they may have the same staff.

The 2 companies have different company numbers

The 2 companies have different VAT numbers

The 2 companies have different energy supply licences

They are different legal entities, as the post I linked to above correctly stated

Yes, they are different legal entities. But not that long ago UP were switching their electricity customers to Neon Reef en masse without any consultation or real explanation. Back then, people on these forums were predicting that UP were siphoning off their more profitable contracts before letting UP go bust.

It does seem quite plausible (presumably the electricity contracts were more profitable, or they were a step ahead of the game predicting sky rocketing gas prices that made their gas supply impossible to profit from). And once you've transferred your profitable customers it's inevitable that the remaining business will go tot the wall. Maybe if UP had kept the electric customers they'd have been able to stay financially viable? We'll probably never know for sure, but I do hope the regulator takes a very close look at what's gone on here.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6238073/utility-point-beware/p1

Yorkshire_Pud

ElwoodBlues said:

greenguppie said:

Bacman said:

techno12 said:

..... "higher for 6 months, lower for 6 months" schemes).

Think I read NR are doing that now, yes? UP = NR  (same directors, same locations, presumably same staff)

I'm not sure quite what you are trying to imply. and I'm sure you will try and wriggle out of it as you tried (and failed) with your incorrect assertion you made previously about NR .

But this matter has already been discussed in this thread, and was debunked.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78606468/#Comment_78606468

But I'm more than happy to give you the whole nine yards (within the site rules) as you brought it up again.

Yes there is an "association" between the two companies. I don't think you can go much further than that.

Yes, both suppliers operate a 6up 6 down pricing on their tariffs. But they have different tariffs
- Furthermore, UP supplied electricty and/or gas. NR supplies electricity only.
- they do share similar billing software.

Yes they have a common registered office address. There were at least 50 companies registered to that same address the last time I looked. It's a solicitors office.

The two companies have 2 common directors. UP also has 2 more directors who are not directors of NR. NR has a 1 more director who is not a director of UP

The two companies have different CEOs

Shareholdings. - The 2 common directors owned all the shares in UP, with the CEO owning over 50% so having overall control.
The same 2 directors each own an equal share in NR, but the CEO also has a smaller holding.
Therefore, no one has overall control of NR.

No, the 2 companies do not share the same location., The 2 suppliers are both based in Poole, but about 2.5 miles apart from each other. (neither operate from their registered office address which is about 5 miles away)
- therefore I have no idea why you suggest they may have the same staff.

The 2 companies have different company numbers

The 2 companies have different VAT numbers

The 2 companies have different energy supply licences

They are different legal entities, as the post I linked to above correctly stated

Yes, they are different legal entities. But not that long ago UP were switching their electricity customers to Neon Reef en masse without any consultation or real explanation. Back then, people on these forums were predicting that UP were siphoning off their more profitable contracts before letting UP go bust.

It does seem quite plausible (presumably the electricity contracts were more profitable, or they were a step ahead of the game predicting sky rocketing gas prices that made their gas supply impossible to profit from). And once you've transferred your profitable customers it's inevitable that the remaining business will go tot the wall. Maybe if UP had kept the electric customers they'd have been able to stay financially viable? We'll probably never know for sure, but I do hope the regulator takes a very close look at what's gone on here.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6238073/utility-point-beware/p1

Talk about dodgy dealers. Seems clear that the two companies with directors in common but which the apologist for them is in denial about how connected they are asset stripped UP around February by taking the electric only customers to Neon Reef and then UP ceased trading in September but not before bumping up customers DD amounts in the interim and not making requested refunds, throwing themselves on the mercy of the solr system and hoping some of the UP staff can be kept on by the solr?! Maybe neon reef will give them a job?

The regulator really does need to have a look at what this devious firm has been UP to.

CRISPIANNE3

My dd would not have been taken again until 1 October and bearing in mind I am in credit I can see no reason for a penalty being imposed on me for the cancelled dd. As Which have pointed out they will take any outstanding amount from the credit held and in my case there is enough there to cover the final bill.

Inigo_Montoya

If I had to predict what will happen then my guess would be the £15 failed DD penalty charge(s) will be applied automatically by their billing system & then you will have the hassle of complaining to get them refunded

I'm not saying they have the right to charge the fees post entering administration, only that it will happen automatically anyway

Being the cynical type I can't see UP turning off DD collection post entering administration either 

hence I am leaving the DD in place since it will be less hassle & I will get all the credit back eventually 

the only thing that really concerns me is what switch options will be available once the account has been transferred to the SOLR - given whats happened recently its almost certain the new tariff provided by the SOLR will be very expensive & it appears that many energy companies are now putting restrictions on taking on new customers &/or the cheaper tariffs being offered

the UK government needs to step in & support the energy industry like other countries governments have done

CRISPIANNE3

Inigo_Montoya said:

If I had to predict what will happen then my guess would be the £15 failed DD penalty charge(s) will be applied automatically by their billing system & then you will have the hassle of complaining to get them refunded

I'm not saying they have the right to charge the fees post entering administration, only that it will happen automatically anyway

Being the cynical type I can't see UP turning off DD collection post entering administration either 

hence I am leaving the DD in place since it will be less hassle & I will get all the credit back eventually 

Fair point. However customers cancel direct debits for a variety of reasons. It may be they are unhappy with their current bank and have opened up a new account somewhere else. Then the customer would normally just need to contact the respective company and they can take the details over the phone. In fact I did change my dd last month and just phoned them and they took the new details from me. Because of the situation now this would not be possible.