EV Charge Tariffs - Your opinion/experience of best company/rate to use

jumeriah64

Afternoon all. 

Who ever thought getting a new EV was so complicated? 

Have ordered a new EV. One with fast charge. We are also getting off the 'discussion phase' of looking at GSHP's and have a need to go 3-phase at home and that is being implemented as we speak. We are going with the Andersen EV charging system. I'm investigating if solar and battery could be any use to us but I am fairly certain the angle and layout of our house makes that a non-starter. It's being looked at anyway.

But I'm clueless as to the best company and tariff to go with. Our current OVO fixed rate comes up for renewal early October. So it's a perfect time to reassess the best solution to go with.

We have done a huge amount of device/lighting changes to high efficiency solutions. We still seem to use a lot of electricity. Another round of switch off and re-education is definitely in order.

I'd be very interested to hear your charging solutions, tariffs and provider and how you rate them. 

Here is our year consumption & costs with OVO. The black line is comparison to 2 years back. I do not know how this compares to other folks

Many thanks in advance

[Deleted User]

Look at Octopus Go/Go Faster; Good Energy and EDF EV. Your graph is pretty meaningless in that you need to work out how much of your usage you can push into the cheap Offpeak periods. The latter depends on how often you expect to charge your EV. All EVs have Fast Charge. On a 3 phase supply, the norm is 11kWs. One problem that you might face is getting a 3 phase smart meter. They are being rolled out slowly, and they are essential for time of use tariffs.

jumeriah64

[Deleted User] said:

Look at Octopus Go/Go Faster; Good Energy and EDF EV. Your graph is pretty meaningless in that you need to work out how much of your usage you can push into the cheap Offpeak periods. The latter depends on how often you expect to charge your EV. All EVs have Fast Charge. On a 3 phase supply, the norm is 11kWs. One problem that you might face is getting a 3 phase smart meter. They are being rolled out slowly, and they are essential for time of use tariffs.

Many thanks for the quick reply Dolor. I will be reading up on those today for sure.

Short answer, I have no idea on usage or consumption car wise. Car is one of the new 800v ones, an Audi. If I read right these can (at a commercial fast charge location go from empty to near full in about 40 mins I think it was. Maybe even less.

The charging unit we have here and to be fitted shortly is a 22kw unit from Andersen. 

Ironically I'm on hold in an endless queue to OVO (25 mins and counting .....) to discuss the very point you mention .... provision of a 3-phase meter.

I don't see too much opportunity to offset a great deal of our usage into off peak periods but will look into to it for sure.

All interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. May I ask which one you have opted for.

[Deleted User]

jumeriah64 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Look at Octopus Go/Go Faster; Good Energy and EDF EV. Your graph is pretty meaningless in that you need to work out how much of your usage you can push into the cheap Offpeak periods. The latter depends on how often you expect to charge your EV. All EVs have Fast Charge. On a 3 phase supply, the norm is 11kWs. One problem that you might face is getting a 3 phase smart meter. They are being rolled out slowly, and they are essential for time of use tariffs.

Many thanks for the quick reply Dolor. I will be reading up on those today for sure.

Short answer, I have no idea on usage or consumption car wise. Car is one of the new 800v ones, an Audi. If I read right these can (at a commercial fast charge location go from empty to near full in about 40 mins I think it was. Maybe even less.

The charging unit we have here and to be fitted shortly is a 22kw unit from Andersen. 

Ironically I'm on hold in an endless queue to OVO (25 mins and counting .....) to discuss the very point you mention .... provision of a 3-phase meter.

I don't see too much opportunity to offset a great deal of our usage into off peak periods but will look into to it for sure.

All interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. May I ask which one you have opted for.

You are entering into a World of new terminology. I am not sure what you mean by a 800v battery. My EV has a 80kWh battery which will fast charge at 7.4/11.2kWs; rapid charge at 50kWs DC and ultra rapid charge at anything up to150kWs. My EVSE (a Zappi 2) is capable of providing a charge at 22kWs; however for AC charging (fast) the maximum charging rate is set by the car’s onboard charger (OBC). For rapid and ultra rapid DC charging, the rate of charge is controlled by the external charging point.

 PS. Near full means 80%. As the battery gets above 80% the charging rate reduces markedly to protect the EV’s battery life.  For some EVs, it can take longer to get from 80 to 100% than it does from 0 to 80%. You will also see the charging rate reduce on your home EVSE as you get closer to 100%.

niktheguru

What he means is his battery can charge at 800volts, this is going to be the new standard of faster charging shortly. Currently only a few cars support this, namely the porsche taycan, hyundai ioniq 5 and the audi e-tron. I'm not sure what the rate at which the tesla charges, think they don't disclose it. All this means is that charging will be faster and for a longer cycle than 400volt charging in most other EVs (i.e. when using a  fast charger you will notice that the charger wont typically charge at the faster speeds as it reaches a full battery and it slows down. with 800volt charging capability it stays faster for longer in the cycle. This is completely different to how big the battery is, which is measured in Kw's.


To my knowledge though, this shouldn't make a huge amount of difference in home charging. (though usually makes CCS charging at 50kwh-350kwh much faster.)

If you want 22kw charging then like dolor says you'll need a 3 phase supply which is quite expensive as it usually means digging up the road/garden depending on where your house is and what supply your house currently has. The vast majority of properties are single phase with a 60-100amp fuse.

I suspect you are going for the andersen charger because of the beauty of the thing. I must say it does look great. I'd be a bit wary of it though, as it isn't the best designed internally and i remember seeing they changed one of the safety features in it recently without telling installers, so it may need further protection (or something along those lines) For me personally, its a bit overpriced for what it is.

If you are thinking of going down the solar route then a zappi charger would be more appropriate and tends to be very popular. (and more reasonably priced) Though i'm suspecting if you're buying an audi and considering a heat pump then finances wont be much of an issue.

Regarding tariffs, definitely look at octopus go faster. That's what i have and its excellent. Even if your usage for everything else stays the same, so long as you set your timer to charge your car during the off peak hours you'll save loads of money (with charging being between 4.5-5.5p/kwh compared to anywhere upwards of 15p/kwh with other providers)

You'll love your electric car! Good luck.

[Deleted User]

Everyday is a school day for a 70 year old. It would seem that 800v chargers (350kW) are still as rare as hens’ teeth. 

jumeriah64

niktheguru said:

What he means is his battery can charge at 800volts, this is going to be the new standard of faster charging shortly. Currently only a few cars provide this, namely the porsche taycan, hyundai ioniq 5 and the audi e-tron. I'm not sure what the rate at which the tesla charges, think they don't disclose it. All this means is that charging will be faster and for a longer cycle than 400volt charging in most other EVs (i.e. when using a  fast charger you will notice that the charger wont typically charge at the faster speeds as it reaches a full battery and it slows down. with 800volt charging capability it stays faster for longer in the cycle. This is completely different to how big the battery is, which is measured in Kw's.


To my knowledge though, this shouldn't make a huge amount of difference in home charging. (though usually makes CCS charging at 50kwh-350kwh much faster.)

If you want 22kw charging then like dolor says you'll need a 3 phase supply which is quite expensive as it usually means digging up the road/garden depending on where your house is and what supply your house currently has. The vast majority of properties are single phase with a 60-100amp fuse.

I suspect you are going for the andersen charger because of the beauty of the thing. I must say it does look great. I'd be a bit wary of it though, as it isn't the best designed internally and i remember seeing they changed one of the safety features in it recently without telling installers, so it may need further protection (or something along those lines) For me personally, its a bit overpriced for what it is.

If you are thinking of going down the solar route then a zappi charger would be more appropriate and tends to be very popular. (and more recently priced) Though i'm suspecting if you're buying an audi and considering a heat pump then finances wont be much of an issue.

Regarding tariffs, definitely look at octopus go faster. That's what i have and its excellent. Even if your usage for everything else stays the same, so long as you set your timer to charge your car during the off peak hours you'll save loads of money (with charging being between 4.5-5.5p/kwh compared to anywhere upwards of 15p/kwh with other providers)

You'll love your electric car! Good luck.

Nik you are pretty much 100% on all there. 

Yes it's the 800v that the Ionic 5 has and the Audi GT. Sounds mad but originally we choose the 5 and then later went with the Audi GT. The cars are worlds apart and yet similar at the same time.

And yes the 3-phase is going in as we speak. The cable was already in to the front door. No idea why as it's an old house. And costs are way way less than I imagined. About £700 with the excavations which I thought was not so bad. Mind you it turns out that we need add a new meter from the chosen supplier which does also have a cost. Only done once I guess.

And you also right on the Andersen ..... it looks the business and has a longer tethered cable. I did not consider the internals too much if I'm honest.

I am considering the solar route and have asked a company to take a look (ISoenergy) but I fear the angles and space at our place do not lend themselves well to the solution.

Octopus does seem to the one folks speak well of. I will give them a call. Especially relevant as the review of tariff comes up October with OVO. And if we do need change the meter then we may as well do it once.

Many thanks for the analysis Nik. Very interesting stuff.

jumeriah64

Dolor said:

Everyday is a school day for a 70 year old. It would seem that 800v chargers (350kW) are still as rare as hens’ teeth. 

Is rare Dolor but it reads very much like the 800v solutions are the ones that will make mass adoption a reality according to the car press.

I do not think that should cause any 400v users to be concerned. I was just lucky enough to be in the right time and place (for once) with that decision.

[Deleted User]

Just so you know, smart metering doesn’t always happen as quickly as many people would like. Best to plan ahead.

jumeriah64

[Deleted User] said:

jumeriah64 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Look at Octopus Go/Go Faster; Good Energy and EDF EV. Your graph is pretty meaningless in that you need to work out how much of your usage you can push into the cheap Offpeak periods. The latter depends on how often you expect to charge your EV. All EVs have Fast Charge. On a 3 phase supply, the norm is 11kWs. One problem that you might face is getting a 3 phase smart meter. They are being rolled out slowly, and they are essential for time of use tariffs.

Many thanks for the quick reply Dolor. I will be reading up on those today for sure.

Short answer, I have no idea on usage or consumption car wise. Car is one of the new 800v ones, an Audi. If I read right these can (at a commercial fast charge location go from empty to near full in about 40 mins I think it was. Maybe even less.

The charging unit we have here and to be fitted shortly is a 22kw unit from Andersen. 

Ironically I'm on hold in an endless queue to OVO (25 mins and counting .....) to discuss the very point you mention .... provision of a 3-phase meter.

I don't see too much opportunity to offset a great deal of our usage into off peak periods but will look into to it for sure.

All interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. May I ask which one you have opted for.

You are entering into a World of new terminology. I am not sure what you mean by a 800v battery. My EV has a 80kWh battery which will fast charge at 7.4/11.2kWs; rapid charge at 50kWs DC and ultra rapid charge at anything up to150kWs. My EVSE (a Zappi 2) is capable of providing a charge at 22kWs; however for AC charging (fast) the maximum charging rate is set by the car’s onboard charger (OBC). For rapid and ultra rapid DC charging, the rate of charge is controlled by the external charging point.

 PS. Near full means 80%. As the battery gets above 80% the charging rate reduces markedly to protect the EV’s battery life.  For some EVs, it can take longer to get from 80 to 100% than it does from 0 to 80%. You will also see the charging rate reduce on your home EVSE as you get closer to 100%.

Is also my understanding Dolor. 

The 800v system on the Audi will change from empty to near full (80%) in 30 minutes at a 350kw charging station. Trouble being there are few of those but I read they will start to become significantly more common the next 24 months.

I also read that Tesla will open up their charging system to the rest of us later this year. Not sure the implications of that.

jumeriah64

[Deleted User] said:

Just so you know, smart metering doesn’t always happen as quickly as many people would like. Best to plan ahead.

Yeah OVO said it would take 21 days to organise. Not in itself a problem but to synch that with the 3-phase connection itself will be interesting.

I've asked for their procedure on that one. But may well make the change to another provider. Another learning area.

It's a bit messy but seems doable. I think it will be a lot more complicated and worse delays in a year or so's time as things ramp up.