EV Charge Tariffs - Your opinion/experience of best company/rate to use

jumeriah64

A little off topic but I think posters to this thread will appreciate this article.

It is a real hands review of the Lucid Air. This is where we are all heading. Not in this price form (seems flagships are most often being launched before more mainstream models these days) but in scaled direction. Is no surprise that Lucid will launch a mid price model in 2 years time.

Take a look at the tech, range and content of this thing ..... my GT, all Tesla's and indeed everything fall by the wayside ....

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-lucid-air-dream-edition-r-exclusive-first-drive-review/

niktheguru

Although evs are taking off now it'll only truly take off when they become affordable for the masses. Currently the prices are getting higher and higher. Perhaps when teslas model 2 finally arrives or some of the Chinese manufacturers bring their excellent cars to the west (xpeng have started in the nordic lands)

Though it does make sense for the infrastructure to improve considerably before it does become completely mainstream, otherwise it'll be a complete mess.

[Deleted User]

Who needs a 933HP car? The Chinese are already sending their cars to the UK. The recently released BMW iX3 which was launched less than 3 weeks ago in the UK was built in China. Reports are that the build quality is exceptional and the car, which is twice the weight of the i3, is recording 3.7miles/kWh compare to 4.1miles/kWh with a range of 290 miles. Not a main stream EV by any means but it is a lot cheaper than the Audi GT (all toys are included). Sadly, it only DC charges at 150kWs! 

niktheguru

I very much don't count the bmw ix3 to be the game changer. At a starting price of 59k its just another car aimed at the wealthy individual. Even a model 3 more affordable at 40k.

We'll find the miles/kwh coming down as the newer cars become more "good looking" rather than aerodynamic. We're already seeing it with the ioniq 5 which reports are suggesting won't get to 4miles/kwh like the Kona but more likely 3.5....similar with the ix3.

When I mean Chinese cars I don't mean Chinese built like model 3 and ix3, (with the bigger manufacturers increasong their profit margins by getting cheaper labour and still charging higher prices) I mean more the oriental manufacturers trying to disrupt the system. 

jumeriah64

[Deleted User] said:

Who needs a 933HP car? The Chinese are already sending their cars to the UK. The recently released BMW iX3 which was launched less than 3 weeks ago in the UK was built in China. Reports are that the build quality is exceptional and the car, which is twice the weight of the i3, is recording 3.7miles/kWh compare to 4.1miles/kWh with a range of 290 miles. Not a main stream EV by any means but it is a lot cheaper than the Audi GT (all toys are included). Sadly, it only DC charges at 150kWs! 

Not sure it's about 'need' dolor. I tend to agree.

But the new automotive marketing vehicle seems to be to launch flagships, then extract the core tech into more mainstream variant's. Very new M.O but seems be becoming common.

So expect watered down models in Lucid, Tesla etc. Indeed Polestar just announced a watered down more cost accessible version of the Polestar 2.

But the point of the flagship Air for example, is that much more is achievable. Is only a matter of time (and likely a short time) before this become V.3 near mainstream.

I think there's a difference between Chinese produced cars and Chinese designed cars and cars for the Chinese market. Massive differences in fact. Polestar building a factory as we speak in China but building cars designed for the Euro and US market. One designed for the Chinese market would look very different.

jumeriah64

niktheguru said:

Although evs are taking off now it'll only truly take off when they become affordable for the masses. Currently the prices are getting higher and higher. Perhaps when teslas model 2 finally arrives or some of the Chinese manufacturers bring their excellent cars to the west (xpeng have started in the nordic lands)

Though it does make sense for the infrastructure to improve considerably before it does become completely mainstream, otherwise it'll be a complete mess.

But that is very much next step V.3 territory Nik. Early adaptors will always pay the price.

I had one of the first 60 DVD players ever built in the world and picked it up on day of release in Tokyo. Was so new LHR customs let it though as they had no definition of what it was. Insane but cost about £1600. Even in 2008 you could buy a massively featured region free model for about £80 that was as good if not as fascinating. 

VW will see to it that prices will massively improve. If they don't then Korea will I'd hazard.

niktheguru

Of course, prices should go down as products mature. That's the whole basis of the product life cycle, as technology becomes cheaper to produce en masse. However in the ev market we are seeing them increase. Its still very much a premium product apart from maybe the Nissan leaf and Renault zoe.

The difference between Chinese produced cars and Chinese designed cars is obvious. The traditional car makers are opening factories in China not only to benefit from cheaper labour but to try and tap into the Chinese ev market. China is far more advanced than we are when it comes to electric vehicles and infrastructure. The Chinese EV startups really have a lot going for them and their vehicles are great. Of course there will be a few designs that will only work in the Chinese Market, but take a look at nio and xpeng for example. The Western world ICE car manufacturers are playing a big game of catchup to these companies and tesla. The VW group are taking a good stay at it though, even though the ID line have been a bit disappointing in quality considering their prices.

coffeehound

niktheguru said:

China is far more advanced than we are when it comes to electric vehicles and infrastructure. The Chinese EV startups really have a lot going for them and their vehicles are great.

Really?  Why does China need to employ industrial scale cyber espionage if it is already ahead?  The fact is that it mostly steals western IP to create products. The example of their airliners illustrates the situation well:  their home-made airliners still need to use western jet engines. Why?  Because they are too hard to copy. Anyone with a grain of patriotism or sense of self-preservation should boycott Chinese everything

niktheguru

Just look at its government supporting its charging infrastructure

https://thedriven.io/2021/04/20/china-dominates-rollout-of-ev-charging-stations-4000-a-day-in-december/

No one is doubting some of the dubious copy cat tactics of some Chinese companies. But do you honestly think The UK and USA are squeaky clean when it comes to cyber espionage or espionage in general. Just look at history and the tactics of the mighty British empire around the world. Good luck in boycotting China everything seeing that a massive proportion of anything you buy or own is made out in the Far East.the majority of the phone or computer you’re using to write your post probably came from there.

coffeehound

. . . And about two-thirds powered by coal-fired electricity. How very Green.  Actually if you read to the end, 30 pc of those chargers don’t even work. 

You’re of course right that it’s near impossible to dodge things made there, but we should aim to buy western brands wherever possible