I am trying really hard and my husband... just isn't.

vickthestick

Drawingaline said:

This is his debt racked up by spending on himself, yes? In which case I wouldn't be doing anything to help him sort it. Everytime he moans I would shut him down with, You need to sort this, here is the number of a debt help charity, I cannot discuss this with you as I am too busy paying for everything else. And just keep repeating it.

I also wouldn't tolerate a house full of his stuff and would start making him limit the areas it is in. He can keep all the stuff but it needs to all be in the garage/shed/hobby room etc. I had to do this with my husband, otherwise his collectables would be everywhere and it's my house too. 

One discussion on why the debts won't be added to the mortgage and that's it. Just no. End of. 

And maybe time to evaluate how you feel about continuing in this relationship. Do you still love him and want to carry on? Is it worth the work and possible counseling? So you want to give that a go?

If not then it is time to look at what you want from the future. Stick it out now to leave in the future or start the processes now to separate and start building a new life.

And remember any debt in his name is his. Not yours. Not joint. And if he has behaved as you have said then it is for him to deal with. If he has a proper light bulb moment and tackles this, then you can re-evaluate your stance on helping etc. 

Good luck, I think you have some big decisions coming up.

Yes. Clearly we are at that stage and I just hadn't really thought about it because I was so desperately trying to tread water.
His stuff won't fit into just one place and he refuses to sell or get rid of anything. As the girls leave to new homes and new jobs and to uni, they take their things with them and there is starting to be slightly more space in the bedrooms (which are obviously all shared) but, e.g. he has five double wardrobes and a triple wardrobe plus two chests of drawers plus a walk-in cupboard plus a rail and some baskets in the loft, full of clothes. That's just his clothes. The rest of us are minimalists (likely as a reaction) but its difficult to see that minimalist lifestyle because of everything surrounding that. 
Time for a think about the future methinks. 

CKhalvashi

vickthestick said:

I have suggested that he needs to speak to someone about his debts but he just keeps coming back to putting it on the mortgage and then everything will be fine and we need to do that now and we can't wait because he's about to run out of money. 😳

Don't let the mortgage default (or anything else secured on the house), but for everything else, I'd let him run out of money and default on everything he can't stump up the cash to pay, as this will at least largely stop any additional debt piling up, and hopefully force a repair and sale of some of the bikes, and a sale of other items that are piling up dust, which should make home life easier, if not ideal.

You also need to take this as an opportunity to separate your finances as much as you can, preferably to the bare bones of everything but the mortgage, and to take your own advice on your pension and how the house is split equity-wise. The TPS will be available to provide you with all figures, and gov.uk will have a state pension forecast.
 
He could also do with signposting as other have suggested to Stepchange etc.

Drawingaline

vickthestick said:

Drawingaline said:

This is his debt racked up by spending on himself, yes? In which case I wouldn't be doing anything to help him sort it. Everytime he moans I would shut him down with, You need to sort this, here is the number of a debt help charity, I cannot discuss this with you as I am too busy paying for everything else. And just keep repeating it.

I also wouldn't tolerate a house full of his stuff and would start making him limit the areas it is in. He can keep all the stuff but it needs to all be in the garage/shed/hobby room etc. I had to do this with my husband, otherwise his collectables would be everywhere and it's my house too. 

One discussion on why the debts won't be added to the mortgage and that's it. Just no. End of. 

And maybe time to evaluate how you feel about continuing in this relationship. Do you still love him and want to carry on? Is it worth the work and possible counseling? So you want to give that a go?

If not then it is time to look at what you want from the future. Stick it out now to leave in the future or start the processes now to separate and start building a new life.

And remember any debt in his name is his. Not yours. Not joint. And if he has behaved as you have said then it is for him to deal with. If he has a proper light bulb moment and tackles this, then you can re-evaluate your stance on helping etc. 

Good luck, I think you have some big decisions coming up.

Yes. Clearly we are at that stage and I just hadn't really thought about it because I was so desperately trying to tread water.
His stuff won't fit into just one place and he refuses to sell or get rid of anything. As the girls leave to new homes and new jobs and to uni, they take their things with them and there is starting to be slightly more space in the bedrooms (which are obviously all shared) but, e.g. he has five double wardrobes and a triple wardrobe plus two chests of drawers plus a walk-in cupboard plus a rail and some baskets in the loft, full of clothes. That's just his clothes. The rest of us are minimalists (likely as a reaction) but its difficult to see that minimalist lifestyle because of everything surrounding that. 
Time for a think about the future methinks. 

If you decide to separate, do be careful over the finances and the way they are split. But if you do decide on a clean break, make it that. Don't get bitter. It's only money and you have proven to be careful. Having to hand over a chunk will feel awful, but you will be looking towards future happiness. 

I am the kind of person who would have been pruning those clothes or putting them all in the loft. But not suggesting this at this time!

You may benefit from one on one counseling, it may help you focus on what you want and need for the future.

vickthestick

Drawingaline said:

vickthestick said:

Drawingaline said:

This is his debt racked up by spending on himself, yes? In which case I wouldn't be doing anything to help him sort it. Everytime he moans I would shut him down with, You need to sort this, here is the number of a debt help charity, I cannot discuss this with you as I am too busy paying for everything else. And just keep repeating it.

I also wouldn't tolerate a house full of his stuff and would start making him limit the areas it is in. He can keep all the stuff but it needs to all be in the garage/shed/hobby room etc. I had to do this with my husband, otherwise his collectables would be everywhere and it's my house too. 

One discussion on why the debts won't be added to the mortgage and that's it. Just no. End of. 

And maybe time to evaluate how you feel about continuing in this relationship. Do you still love him and want to carry on? Is it worth the work and possible counseling? So you want to give that a go?

If not then it is time to look at what you want from the future. Stick it out now to leave in the future or start the processes now to separate and start building a new life.

And remember any debt in his name is his. Not yours. Not joint. And if he has behaved as you have said then it is for him to deal with. If he has a proper light bulb moment and tackles this, then you can re-evaluate your stance on helping etc. 

Good luck, I think you have some big decisions coming up.

Yes. Clearly we are at that stage and I just hadn't really thought about it because I was so desperately trying to tread water.
His stuff won't fit into just one place and he refuses to sell or get rid of anything. As the girls leave to new homes and new jobs and to uni, they take their things with them and there is starting to be slightly more space in the bedrooms (which are obviously all shared) but, e.g. he has five double wardrobes and a triple wardrobe plus two chests of drawers plus a walk-in cupboard plus a rail and some baskets in the loft, full of clothes. That's just his clothes. The rest of us are minimalists (likely as a reaction) but its difficult to see that minimalist lifestyle because of everything surrounding that. 
Time for a think about the future methinks. 

If you decide to separate, do be careful over the finances and the way they are split. But if you do decide on a clean break, make it that. Don't get bitter. It's only money and you have proven to be careful. Having to hand over a chunk will feel awful, but you will be looking towards future happiness. 

I am the kind of person who would have been pruning those clothes or putting them all in the loft. But not suggesting this at this time!

You may benefit from one on one counseling, it may help you focus on what you want and need for the future.

He knows if someone has touched his stuff or moved his stuff. It's not worth it. 
Thanks for the suggestions. Appreciated.  

Sea_Shell

vickthestick said:

Drawingaline said:

vickthestick said:

Drawingaline said:

This is his debt racked up by spending on himself, yes? In which case I wouldn't be doing anything to help him sort it. Everytime he moans I would shut him down with, You need to sort this, here is the number of a debt help charity, I cannot discuss this with you as I am too busy paying for everything else. And just keep repeating it.

I also wouldn't tolerate a house full of his stuff and would start making him limit the areas it is in. He can keep all the stuff but it needs to all be in the garage/shed/hobby room etc. I had to do this with my husband, otherwise his collectables would be everywhere and it's my house too. 

One discussion on why the debts won't be added to the mortgage and that's it. Just no. End of. 

And maybe time to evaluate how you feel about continuing in this relationship. Do you still love him and want to carry on? Is it worth the work and possible counseling? So you want to give that a go?

If not then it is time to look at what you want from the future. Stick it out now to leave in the future or start the processes now to separate and start building a new life.

And remember any debt in his name is his. Not yours. Not joint. And if he has behaved as you have said then it is for him to deal with. If he has a proper light bulb moment and tackles this, then you can re-evaluate your stance on helping etc. 

Good luck, I think you have some big decisions coming up.

Yes. Clearly we are at that stage and I just hadn't really thought about it because I was so desperately trying to tread water.
His stuff won't fit into just one place and he refuses to sell or get rid of anything. As the girls leave to new homes and new jobs and to uni, they take their things with them and there is starting to be slightly more space in the bedrooms (which are obviously all shared) but, e.g. he has five double wardrobes and a triple wardrobe plus two chests of drawers plus a walk-in cupboard plus a rail and some baskets in the loft, full of clothes. That's just his clothes. The rest of us are minimalists (likely as a reaction) but its difficult to see that minimalist lifestyle because of everything surrounding that. 
Time for a think about the future methinks. 

If you decide to separate, do be careful over the finances and the way they are split. But if you do decide on a clean break, make it that. Don't get bitter. It's only money and you have proven to be careful. Having to hand over a chunk will feel awful, but you will be looking towards future happiness. 

I am the kind of person who would have been pruning those clothes or putting them all in the loft. But not suggesting this at this time!

You may benefit from one on one counseling, it may help you focus on what you want and need for the future.

He knows if someone has touched his stuff or moved his stuff. It's not worth it. 
Thanks for the suggestions. Appreciated.  

He sounds like he's struggling with hoarding too, if he'd notice an old shirt that hadn't been worn in years were moved (thrown out).  Hoarders have an amazing ability to recall every item they own, even when it's actual rubbish!!

Sorry to say, but I agree with the others that you need to start planning your exit strategy... otherwise you're going to live the rest of your life like this.   You're still "young"!

Obviously you can hope for the best, and that he'll have a "lightbulb" moment, but plan for the worst.

Good luck.

Jude57

I think you said @vickthestick that your OH can't work. Not for you to answer here but if it's more a case of ' doesn't want to' then he'll find living on a low pension is not much fun. I doubt your OH would ever voluntarily reach the stage of selling his stuff, as in his mind, it's all priceless, so even if he could be persuaded, he'd be bitter ever after. 

I'd also bet that, should you decide to separate, he'll treat that as coming entirely out of the blue, he had no idea you were unhappy, why didn't you say something then he could have changed etc etc. Been there, bought that t-shirt. And of course change, if it happens at all, is only ever temporary. 

One final question, again not necessarily for you to answer here: Is he a good parent? I mean is he involved and engaged especially with your younger children? Or does he do the bare, logistical minimum of pick ups/drop offs and then retreat to his hobbies? If the latter, remember that you can buy in childcare, so consider that, too.

The only additional thing I'd like to mention is, when seeking legal advice, try for personal recommendations from trusted friends/family. Otherwise, your union membership may give you access to legal advice, not just on employment matters. There's a well regarded poster, @TBagpuss who can give pointers on what to expect if you decide to separate (not legal advice). Hope they don't mind me tagging them!

Suseka97

Gosh, this makes me so very sad for you and whilst I have no solutions except to agree with the many who advise not to add his debt onto the mortgage, I just wanted to reach out and say what a remarkable woman and mother you are.

I don't think I could have stuck with such a partnership myself, even for the sake of the children - to be with someone who is so selfish and self-absorbed.  But I wonder what has made him this way, I'm sure he wasn't always like that.  I do think he could probably benefit from counselling of some sort, as would you.

If you are genuinely thinking about a separation down the line, then you must speak with someone so that you can protect your interests as much as possible, accepting that the pension and house are assets that will eventually be apportioned.  

I also wonder why he feels so adamant that his retirement income is for his use alone, whereas your salary is clearly not for yours alone.  I can't quite get my head around that part!

Anyway, I'm pleased to see the support and good advice being given by the MSE forumites here and I wish you all the very best luck going forward  

Teapot55

@vickthestick Change the beneficiaries on your Teacher Pension to some or all of your children. This should be easy to do online. Fairly sure pension payouts (should a person die) do not form part of the person’s estate. 

On that subject, you do have a will?

vickthestick

Teapot55 said:

@vickthestick Change the beneficiaries on your Teacher Pension to some or all of your children. This should be easy to do online. Fairly sure pension payouts (should a person die) do not form part of the person’s estate. 

On that subject, you do have a will?

I can do that. And no, I don't have a will. Adding it to the list...

RAS

For what it's worth, I think you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

If you wait until the youngest leaves home your husband's entitlement to the shared assets is likely to be greater than if you were to ditch him now.

At the very least, go see a good divorce lawyer promptly and ask the question. Given your children's ages there is no need for their father to be a stay at home dad.