Economy 7 Tariff Times not transparent

gm0

Ooh a classic - a GEC Meters (Stone Staffs) vintage teleswitch with the Radio 4 pips long wave radio digital "blip" synchronisation.  Very retro cool.  Do keep it going.  It should have kept time if dim and distant memory serves due to the signals.
This was quite the coming thing - in 1986

Around the death of spinny disc ferraris meters and the first vaguely cost effective electronic ones begining to appear from GEC and Sangamo and Landis & Gyr.  Long ago and far away (well Stone) in my engineering apprentice days I wrote the first infra red remote control software used by meter reader/installers to set these up.

The problem with all this historic stuff - and the even smaller groups of "pilots" that regional distribution companies did over 50 years is the immense service life. Which from many perspectives - sustainability being one - is a good thing.  Products that do a thing and last.  But just no way some quick and dirty web startup collecting direct debits and paying for energy afterwards until their hedging strategy fails can support all the old complex metering scenarios with timed rates, master/deduct, master/sub,  master/add, 3 rate, 4 rate, reactive, sub-half hourly but industrial variants etc. etc. etc.  On and on it goes.   A lot of that was never properly supported by competition from 1998.  (Shudders).  

Back when this was current there were loads of different spinny disc meter variations (I did a bunch of sales and tendering as part of my apprenticeship) going off to the forerunners of DNOs to stick into houses.  What GEC sold wasn't the half of it as other suppliers were "preferred" in some regions.

If someone has a GEC Meters - Mainslink houshold load control switch and signalling setup to go with it still going - it will make my day.

jrh22542254

gm0 said:

Ooh a classic - a GEC Meters (Stone Staffs) vintage teleswitch with the Radio 4 pips long wave radio digital "blip" synchronisation.  Very retro cool.  Do keep it going.  It should have kept time if dim and distant memory serves due to the signals.
This was quite the coming thing - in 1986

Around the death of spinny disc ferraris meters and the first vaguely cost effective electronic ones begining to appear from GEC and Sangamo and Landis & Gyr.  Long ago and far away (well Stone) in my engineering apprentice days I wrote the first infra red remote control software used by meter reader/installers to set these up.

The problem with all this historic stuff - and the even smaller groups of "pilots" that regional distribution companies did over 50 years is the immense service life. Which from many perspectives - sustainability being one - is a good thing.  Products that do a thing and last.  But just no way some quick and dirty web startup collecting direct debits and paying for energy afterwards until their hedging strategy fails can support all the old complex metering scenarios with timed rates, master/deduct, master/sub,  master/add, 3 rate, 4 rate, reactive, sub-half hourly but industrial variants etc. etc. etc.  On and on it goes.   A lot of that was never properly supported by competition from 1998.  (Shudders).  

Back when this was current there were loads of different spinny disc meter variations (I did a bunch of sales and tendering as part of my apprenticeship) going off to the forerunners of DNOs to stick into houses.  What GEC sold wasn't the half of it as other suppliers were "preferred" in some regions.

If someone has a GEC Meters - Mainslink houshold load control switch and signalling setup to go with it still going - it will make my day.

This is mine which is still going strong. I am getting more emails/texts asking me to pick a date to switch. So far I have ignored as they have never ever explained to me what impact switching has on my economy 7 tariff. 

QrizB

jrh22542254 said:

I am getting more emails/texts asking me to pick a date to switch. So far I have ignored as they have never ever explained to me what impact switching has on my economy 7 tariff.

Changing your meter will have no real effect on your E7 tariff. You will still have E7, with seven hours of cheap-rate electricity every day.

jrh22542254

Update June 2024. I am still being bombarded with requests to upgrade to a smart meter. However I now know that my new E7 times would be 12.15am to 7.15am which in my case are much worse than my existing 1am to 8am as that extra 45mins in the morning is crucial to me   Hence I am holding out for as long as possible. I think it’s June 2025 when the RTS signal is switched off so I think I will reconsider my options closer to the time. How many others are in the same position ? Thank you. 

dunstonh

Update June 2024. I am still being bombarded with requests to upgrade to a smart meter. However I now know that my new E7 times would be 12.15am to 7.15am which in my case are much worse than my existing 1am to 8am as that extra 45mins in the morning is crucial to me

Are you referring to GMT or BST?

E7 hours remain in GMT.  So, over summer, they increase by one hour when looking at BST.  So, in your case, you are 1am to 8am now but when the clocks change, it will go to 12am to 7am.

Your E7 times shouldn't change by moving to a smart meter unless your meter has had drift.

jrh22542254

dunstonh said:

Update June 2024. I am still being bombarded with requests to upgrade to a smart meter. However I now know that my new E7 times would be 12.15am to 7.15am which in my case are much worse than my existing 1am to 8am as that extra 45mins in the morning is crucial to me

Are you referring to GMT or BST?

E7 hours remain in GMT.  So, over summer, they increase by one hour when looking at BST.  So, in your case, you are 1am to 8am now but when the clocks change, it will go to 12am to 7am.

Your E7 times shouldn't change by moving to a smart meter unless your meter has had drift.

Agree they are 1am to 8am now and when the clocks change 12am to 7am. I am happy with these times.
Dont understand your comment that moving to a smart meter will not change my E7 times. My supplier sainsburys in East Midlands are adament my times will change to 12.15am to 7.15am all year round. Are they wrong?
Thanks.

Swipe

jrh22542254 said:

dunstonh said:

Update June 2024. I am still being bombarded with requests to upgrade to a smart meter. However I now know that my new E7 times would be 12.15am to 7.15am which in my case are much worse than my existing 1am to 8am as that extra 45mins in the morning is crucial to me

Are you referring to GMT or BST?

E7 hours remain in GMT.  So, over summer, they increase by one hour when looking at BST.  So, in your case, you are 1am to 8am now but when the clocks change, it will go to 12am to 7am.

Your E7 times shouldn't change by moving to a smart meter unless your meter has had drift.

Agree they are 1am to 8am now and when the clocks change 12am to 7am. I am happy with these times.
Dont understand your comment that moving to a smart meter will not change my E7 times. My supplier sainsburys in East Midlands are adament my times will change to 12.15am to 7.15am all year round. Are they wrong?
Thanks.

No, they are probably right, give or take 5 mins or so either side. An E.On field engineer told me that all their E7 smart meters are pre-programmed for 00:30 - 07:30 GMT. As was mine that was installed by EDF.

dunstonh

jrh22542254 said:

dunstonh said:

Update June 2024. I am still being bombarded with requests to upgrade to a smart meter. However I now know that my new E7 times would be 12.15am to 7.15am which in my case are much worse than my existing 1am to 8am as that extra 45mins in the morning is crucial to me

Are you referring to GMT or BST?

E7 hours remain in GMT.  So, over summer, they increase by one hour when looking at BST.  So, in your case, you are 1am to 8am now but when the clocks change, it will go to 12am to 7am.

Your E7 times shouldn't change by moving to a smart meter unless your meter has had drift.

Agree they are 1am to 8am now and when the clocks change 12am to 7am. I am happy with these times.
Dont understand your comment that moving to a smart meter will not change my E7 times. My supplier sainsburys in East Midlands are adament my times will change to 12.15am to 7.15am all year round. Are they wrong?
Thanks.

There is some inconsistency in the times across the regions and some play within that so everyone doesn't change at the same point.    And online sites that claim to give you the times are notoriously inaccurate most of the time.  Suppliers often give the wrong data out on their websites too. 

Plus, meters can drift—some very little, some by loads. Both my previous meters had significant drift.  Changing your meter shouldn't change the time unless it has drifted or they are removing a variance. 

If you look at your electricity bill for your supply number, it should have 2 or 02 in the top left box (indicating 2 rates).   The top middle box has your Meter Time Switch Code (MTSC)

Code Time
500 Single rate
501 Single rate
801 Single rate
802 Single rate
803 Cheap: 23:30 – 06:30 clock time
804 Cheap: 23:30 – 06:30 clock time
805 Cheap: 23:30 – 06:30 GMT
806 Cheap: 23:30 – 06:30 GMT
807 Cheap: Midnight – 0700 GMT
808 Cheap: Midnight – 0700 GMT
809 Cheap: Midnight – 0700 GMT
810 Cheap: Midnight – 0700 GMT
811 Cheap: 00:30 – 07:30 GMT
812 Cheap: 00:30 – 07:30 GMT
813 Cheap: 00:30 – 07:30 clock time
814 Cheap: 00:30 – 07:30 GMT
815 Cheap: 00:30 – 07:30 GMT
816 Cheap: 00:30 – 07:30 clock time
817 Cheap: 00:30 – 07:30 clock time
830 Cheap: 01:00 – 08:00 clock time
831 Cheap: 01:00 – 08:00 clock time

With older meters, a variance could exist on those to prevent surges.   These could be up to 15 minutes out.  With digital meters (conventional or smart), most regions don't use variances.    However, in your case, Sainsburys are telling you that yours would have a 15 minute variance added.   That is unusual but possible.    Most of the time, you would expect the same timings to apply as previously unless its drift correction.